?

[unicyu]

i have one more ig. this was a long time ago but me and my bf use to have problems and i woukd accuse him of cheating a lot. and we were in the car and he was tryna talk about it and i like fake slept so i didnt have to talk about it in the car with his ma and his little cousin. i like leaned on him to uk fake sleep and he pushed me off him cause he kept askin me to get off him and i didnt and he said "gtfo me" and pushed me off kinda hard. this was the only time this happened and we had serious arguments abt it and i was thinking maybe id leave but he was like "ur being hypocritical gabby cause youve have done much worse" he isnt wrong ive pushed him on the floor( he didnt do anything he took it) i slapped him cause he said i wouldnt do it in an argument. ive called him a lot of names. idk what to do tbh is what he did abuse? and idk what do to

[Heather]

You know, unicyu: taking in all of your posts and what you have shared about this relationship so far, my biggest feeling is that it just isn't something that's healthy or functional all around.

Honestly, the way you describe some of the ways the two of you talk to each other and treat one another, it's hard for me to even get the sense you LIKE each other. You say you love him, but the way you two interact doesn't sound to me like people who like each other, let alone love one another.

You also describe both of you being very physically aggressive with one another on the regular,. some of which sounds like abuse to me (and not just from him, but as something you both have done to each other). You talk about seeing each other for around a year and there being almost no boundaries for most of it. You talk about accusing him of cheating with frequency, and thus, I assume, not feeling like you can trust him or be secure in your relationship.

You also say you both struggle with anxiety and other issues, and of course, you're both really young. This is probably a first serious romantic/sexual relationship or one of them, and it's common for things to run really high all the time and to struggle to figure out how to have a healthy relationship like this, especially if any of those issues include either of you not growing up in healthy families or such (I don't know if that's an issue or not, but it sounds like some kinds of boundary issues and maybe even physical abuse are normalized for you two, so it seems possible that's stuff that's come from how one or both of you have been brought up). It's not unusual to have these kinds of struggles with intense early relationships.

But it's also not uncommon for people having the kind of dynamics it sounds like you two have been having not to realize that what might be happening is that you're just not in something good for either of you, even if you feel attached to it, and that it's probably past time to end it. It sounds like a lot of unhealthy dynamics -- the fights, the physical aggression, etc. -- are just a longstanding pattern here, and it seems pretty unlikely for you two to change them together at this point, especially without professional help, something very young couples usually don't have access to.

I know that's a lot to take in, but can you think about it some and share your feelings and thoughts about it with me?

Also, you have quite a few different threads now that are all about problems in this relationship. I don't think it makes sense for us to try having what is ultimately going to be a very similar conversation in all of them, because it's too confusing and hard to keep track of. So, I'm going to go ahead into each of those and give the link to this one and lock those up for now, just to make this easier for you and those of us working with you. (In other words, you didn't do anything wrong by posting all those threads, I'm just doing that to make it easier for us to work together and to have cohesive conversations about the one topic -- this relationship -- they're all about.)

[unicyu]

i have a lot of issues and as does he. his dad was very abusive and i grew uo with extremely bad anxiety. yea ik it isnt healthy. but i rly do love him. i have a hard time trusting because mt ex cheated on me so badly then tried to only use me for sex while he had a gf and lied to me about it. we have becone better since. most of these are old topics i jus brought them up again. i really do love him tho and he loves me. i mean yea i told u all the bad stuff but udk all the good hes done for me and i have done for him. he deals with my anxiety constantly and i give him kudos. he supports me all the time, he cares for me, gives me advice etc. ik maybe it is beyond repair but i want to repair it because me and him are committed to becoming healthy again

[unicyu]

so what he did was abuse then. trust me ik what i did was and i havent done it since. i use to do stuff like that in my pervious relationship cause i thought it was ok but i realized it wasnt when i started dating him and ive been trying to work on it ever since. i have anger issues and he has emotional problems because of his familys problems especially with the sucicide of his cousin and the abusiveness of his father

[unicyu]

he accepts me for things i cant accept myself. and what i stated was the only time he did that. yes i believe he shouldnt of but i cant be hypocritical when i have done things as well. i just wanted to ask idkf that is abuse

[Heather]

I don't think that it's good to make being hypocritical or not part of your choices when you're deciding about abuse in a relationship. In a relationship, one partner being abusive doesn't mean they need to -- or should -- accept abuse from the person they abused. No one should accept abuse, whether or not they have been abused, just like ideally, no one should abuse. Nothing is ever made better by more abuse. Nothing.

I hear you when you say you're mostly talking to us here about the problematic stuff, because you're coming for help with problems. That makes sense. I also hear you when you say most of this stuff was in the past. And I understand that what you seem to be saying is that ideally, you'd like to stay in this relationship.

Here's our position: part of us, here, doing our jobs responsibly is doing what we can to keep our users from harm or from staying ion harm. We can't in good conscience advise someone on staying in something abusive or otherwise harmful or unhealthy. I'm sure you can appreciate and understand that. What we try and do if and when someone is in something abusive is offer help to them to help them get out and away from it, and offer them emotional support, no matter what, even if they can't yet or aren't ready to leave the abusive/harmful thing.

So. If what you're in is like that, I'll need us to go at it that way. But if you're telling me it WAS abusive, but you don't think it is anymore, or it's something you both acknowledged was unhealthy and are both working to turn around, those things are something else. If either of those situations are more the case, can you go ahead and tell me more about the WHOLE relationship, not just the problem parts? And about what you *both* are doing now to change the relationship into something free of abuse?

[unicyu]

we are taking a break now to work on it. so if we both done some sort of abuse we need to recognize it ig. tbh idk if what he did was. that was the only thing he ever did. i did a lot more on the other hand. even before his situation happened. ive been trying to better cause i love him. i asked so many people and everyone thinks what he did wasnt abuse because it is usually continuous and about control. he pushed me off him cause he kept askin me to get off and i didnt listen so he did. im not justifying it im telling you what happened. and idk what to think about it. thats why im asking if you wil tell me it is

[Heather]

I understand, and I appreciate your honesty. It's hard and scary to say things we've done that we know aren't great out loud.

For sure, if we get on someone without their permission, and/or we won't get off when they ask, then yes, it would be US engaging in boundary violations. And yes, those things can be abuse.

Working on changing these kinds of behaviors is hard, and I commend you both for getting started on that. It's also really hard to do, and do effectively, without some qualified support -- like counselors -- or, at least, some good information. I'm at the end of my workday today, but if you both are open to doing some reading, I'd be glad to come back tomorrow and suggest a couple books that I think can help, especially if both of you don't have access to counselors right now. Do both of you have either a way to buy/download books, or, if not, a library you can get to?

[unicyu]

not really. but i want an opinion tbh. do you think if we really work on this. we can become a healthy relationship again and be together

[Jacob]

Hi unicyu,

I hope you're ok, I just read through the thread and hope it's ok me answering too.

Not sure what you were saying 'not really' to. Was that to book recommendations? Or not really you don't have access to a library (I'm sure we can help with that!)

I think if you are in an unhealthy relationship it is very very difficult to work on it, and when abusive elements are in there it can be nigh impossible to tell that things have improved or not, because abuse is so psychological. A lot of it inculdes a belief that things are getting better, even when they're not, and a desire to stay together can come from the abuse and overwhelm our ways of thinking. That's why an external person like a counsellor can be so helpful.

I think another important factor in healthy relationships is that you need to feel able to walk away from them. That makes me hesitant to say something like "You can get through this, and your relationship can become a healthy one!", because hey, you could, but that's probably not the best place to put your focus.

It sounds like you have successfully taken breaks and I really appreciate how you were reflective on your own behaviour and taking responsibility in this thread.

Getting more support and learning to more easily see yourself outside of the relationship sounds like the best place to go though. Does that make sense?

[Heather]

Adding to what Jacob has said:

That all really depends on what you mean when you say "working on it." In other words, that depends on what you both are actually doing, and THAT both of you -- not one, both -- are really doing productive, effective work on both your issues together and separately.

Like, if neither of you are open to or do any therapy or counseling, neither or you are open to or doing any reading or other solid education about how to engage in healthy ways and unlearn unhealthy ways, neither of you are getting any kind of qualified help with any of this stuff, including learning -- outside your relationship together, and ideally staying separate for a while while you do -- how to behave in ways that are emotionally healthy? Then probably no, because those *are* the ways to work on something like this that tend to give people a real shot at effectively changing something that was abusive or otherwise dysfunctional into something healthy.

Want to fill me in on what you mean when you say you're both now -- or are going to be --working on it?

[unicyu]

we talked to each other about things we don't like about the relationship or things we did. we give each other more space. we try exercises to remain calm. and wdym by no?

[unicyu]

i want space from him. and im sure he does from me. even not he said he's ok with that. we havent been as talktative to each other but we talk about us once we do. we dicsuss what can and cannot happen and what we dont like, like i said. he still supports me for softball and today was suppose to be our anniversary and he wished me happy anniversary

[unicyu]

then he told me how appreciative of me he is and how much he loves me and he really wants to work things out and feels like we can but im not sure. i love him dearly and ik i'd be devestated if he was out of my life because i dont want anyone else and frankly i dont even find interest in looking

[Heather]

I meant no, unless you're both doping some of the things I mentioned, the dynamics of your relationship probably aren't going to be able to change much, especially long-term.

It certainly sounds like some of the things you are doing could be good things, though, that maybe help with this. The big thing I see that's missing in all this, though, is both of you having actual help with and information about HOW to do things differently. Talking about what hasn't been okay with you both and your relationship is an important place to start, but just saying what those things are doesn't give either of you tools to actually change those things, know what I mean? And one assumes that a big part of why things have ben how they are is that you both just haven't known how to do things differently.

Can you tell me why neither of you would be open to at least reading a book or so together that can start to give you at least some of these kinds of information and tools? I ask because while I strongly suggest counseling for you both (he has a big abuse history in his life, as you noted, and it sounds like you both have had some troubles with being if not outright abusive, really dysfunctional with each other), I recognize how out of reach that can be. At least getting your hands on, and working with, a book or two, the kind a therapist would often recommend, could give you an effective place to start, you know?

(Just so you don't feel blown off, I have other parts of my job I have to do tomorrow and will be away for the weekend, so you probably won't be talking to me again until Monday, but other staff who are around could certainly pick this up with you if you'd like.)

[unicyu]

well because i dont have access to any books of the sort and so does he. and i mean if u think we cant work out why bother with all this..

[unicyu]

we talked about how to make things better as well. but like if u think we cant theres no reason for this

[unicyu]

id do anything to get better with him... i feel awful for what ive done. and i am willing to leave but i cant help how i feel. he means so much to me and i never cared for someone so much. even tho it doesnt seem like it he takes pretty good care of me and my feelings. hes a very sweet guy and he has issues and i do too and i understand wht we both done is wrong. ill take as long as i want to think about us even getting back together but i jus want him. no one else would fill his place. yea i fantasize sometimes and uk think guys are cute but ik deep down they wont have that connection that i have with him

[Sam W]

Hi unicyu,

I think what Heather's getting at is less about not thinking this relationship can change and more about how actually bringing that change about is going to require more than just talking about what's wrong and what could make it better. Those are great starting places, but when it comes to unlearning dysfunctional or abusive behaviors and dynamics, real change requires learning how to do things differently and then putting the things you learn into practice, something that is hard to do without any tools. Does that make sense?

Can you tell me a little more about what you mean when you say you don't have access to books? I ask because the titles Heather or I might recommend would also be available through a library if that's the way you two get books. Too, if access is the main concern, we can also provide you and him with online resources on these topics that you could read. How does that sound?

[unicyu]

can we get online. i cant walk in my neighborhood and he doesnt live near one. but she was like no so i thought she just meant i shouldnt be with him. is that what she means?

[unicyu]

it was a long time ago but he and i were like going thru a phase and im sure he was joking ig idk but like we were in the pool or sometimes we would lay down and he woukd like put his finger on my asshole for some reason and i remember one time it did penetrate a tiny tiny but snd when he did it i said like no and im sure he stopped after j said it once or twice idk tbh but still do u think its rape. he doesnt do it anymore cause i told him i rly dont like it but i just thought about it so yea

[Sam W]

Got it (is there any chance an adult in your life could help you get to the nearest library?) So, some starter resources would be: Potholes & Dead Ends: Relationship Roadblocks to Look Out For, Hello, Sailor! How to Build, Board and Navigate a Healthy Relationship, How to Clash With Love: Some Conflict Resolution Basics. How about you and he each take time to read those and think about how you can apply what's in them to your relationship? And if you don't feel like you can apply them, ask yourselves why that is. To be clear, those are very, very basic resources. If you decide you want to keep working, there are some more in-depth resources we can talk about.

Looking at the conversation, I believe Heather's "no" was directed at the idea of this relationship being fixable without you both doing some major work to learn how to change, and then actually change, your behavior. In other words, if neither of you does things like obtain counseling or do some serious reading and learning about how to behave differently in relationships, then this relationship is not going to last much longer.

When we're talking about sexual assault, the definition includes things like,"Touching someone’s vulva or vagina, breasts, buttocks, anus, penis, testicles, mouth, or other parts of the body without permission, when that touch is intentional and sexual on your part, or is considered sexual by most people, are all rape or sexual assault."

[unicyu]

well i called the sexual assault hotline and he said no cause it was a very long time ago like when we just started dating, he hasnt done it for close to a year now and like we didnt reallt set our boundaries. he said he was always jokin with it and ik he meant no harm in it. after i told him off and was like im serious when i say i dont like it he hasnt done it since. when i said no he stopped its not like he forced it un

[unicyu]

and tbh i said he could or i would say uk we should do anal shit but we never did. he said he was never going to put it in and the incident im like thinkin of we just had sex and we went in the pool and we were fooling around. even we we had sex sometimes he put his thumb there and i moved it or said no stop and he did he never put it in. when i called the guy said he was being dumb and if he hasnt done it after u really expressed u didnt like it thatd be a problem.

[unicyu]

well i asked if it was rape