My boyfriend's parents don't take his depression seriously

[dependantdragon]

I'm really sorry if this falls into one of the things that shouldn't be here, but searching online is usually overwhelming for me and I don't know where else to ask. My boyfriend (I technically only know him online, but we've known each other for several years and are very close, and we live too far apart to reasonably meet up plus I would have to research how to make sure that would be safe) has very bad depression, and I try my best to help him with that, but due to my own mental health issues I can't always help him - and besides, his depression is the kind that I think needs psychiatric treatment. He lives in Britain, and he's described his location as "right near London", so I assume it's a suburb of the city. His parents won't take his requests to be evaluated for depression seriously, and as he's a minor (he's 16, I'm 18) I don't think he could make such an appointment on his own, even if he was confident in his ability to. I want to help him get access to treatment, but I live in the USA and I don't know anything about laws or resources across the pond. Any links or recommendations for places to start looking for information would help - even if it's not very specific or helpful, anything helps. I don't believe he's in danger of hurting himself, but he's so obviously suffering emotionally, I can't stand by and do nothing - I just don't know how I can help him, if it's possible at all.

[Elise]

Hi dependantdragon, that is very thoughtful and caring of of you to be thinking about how you can help your boyfriend, and a great level of self awareness you have around your own capacity to help so you can take care of yourself too.

Below are some links to various UK based resources that could help your friend:

• Mind is a mental health charity and support service in the UK. They have an online, moderated, peer counselling service called Side by Side that could be a good starting point for your friend and a useful contacts area for young people.
• The NHS (Universal Government Healthcare of the UK) has the Child and Adolescent Mental Health Service (CAMHS), which a GP can refer to. Information I have found confirms that at 16, your boyfriend can go to the doctor himself to discuss and request a referral. Hopefully upon hearing from a GP that this is real, that his parents will take this as seriously as they should be already.
  • Youngminds has a guide to talking to a GP about mental health and guide to CAMHS he might find useful.

Hopefully some of these help. Do you have some good self care tools you can draw upon after giving emotional support to your boyfriend? If you'd like some ideas we can help with that too

[dependantdragon]

Thanks so much for the information! I will begin checking them out as soon as possible.

I don't *think* that my boyfriend would be able to go to the doctor on his own, due to multiple reasons; his depression for one, the fact that he's autistic and has a lot of resulting social anxiety (I'm also autistic and have many of the same symptoms as him, so I understand a lot about his struggles, I think), and he doesn't usually go out of the house on his own except for school (which is out now) or similar things due to said social anxiety - I don't know how his parents would feel about him going to the doctor on his own, and even if he lied to them about where he was going, they would have to find out eventually when they learn about his diagnosis. *However,* I haven't actually discussed the possibility of him going on his own with him, so I don't want to make assumptions because he knows his limits better than I do. So I will definitely bring it up with him. (Also, that's GP as in general practitioner, right?)

On the topic of my mental health: I've been diagnosed with depression for at least five years I believe, and it's been very treatment-resistant, but very recently I've started feeling the effects of a recent treatment that has lifted my depression considerably. I still have other health issues to deal with - chronic pain, school trauma, autism and I think undiagnosed ADHD - but I now feel much more motivated to tackle not only my health problems, but other issues that need dealing with as well as old and new goals. The treatment taking effect is honestly the main reason I was able to write out this post in the first place. But since this has literally only happened in the past week, I'm still in a period of transition, feeling out my new boundaries and limits. Generally I provide emotional support to my boyfriend by either cheering him up - we have several shared interests we like to talk about that can help take his mind off of things - or by offering advice, or just expressing my sympathy for the things he's been struggling with. Advice is generally the easiest since I'm pretty good at introspection, second is cheering up, and third is the sympathy - not because I'm not sympathetic, but because some of the things he gets frustrated over link back to this weird thing I have from various bad experiences, where I'm overly cautious of getting upset over things one can't control. I try my best not to invalidate his feelings, but it's not fun to see him being upset (he never lashes out at me or anything, I just feel sad because he's hurting emotionally) and I might be too quick to jump to "Don't let those jerks get a reaction out of you" or similar logic. I think that we have a pretty healthy relationship, but I do worry since I'm older than him enough that some people might think it's inappropriate, and I never ever want to hurt him.

[Carly]

Hey dependantdragon -- I'm not totally sure what the resources Elise shared can offer, but telehealth appointments might be an option for your boyfriend. He can be wherever he needs to be to receive treatment. This medium took off during the roughest parts of the pandemic and has been continued by a lot of providers. That does pose some privacy risks if done at home, especially if his parents are not supportive. When you do have this conversation, perhaps ask and see if this would be a better scenario? (And yes, GP does mean general practitioner.)

I think you're doing a great job of figuring out your boundaries with all of this. I can tell that you take your mental health very seriously and the concern for your boyfriend comes from a place of deep sympathy. To go back to Elise's question though, what do you do to comfort yourself? You were very thorough about the support that you give him, but let us know what you do for you!

[dependantdragon]

Well, providing support for my boyfriend isn't exactly stressful - though sometimes it can be hard to come up with ideas for stuff to talk about when cheering him up - it's more that sometimes I'm just not up to it, because of my own mental health. Essentially, I usually don't need to regulate after providing support, but sometimes he'll be in a bad place and need support when I also in a bad place. In which case, I usually let him know that I saw his messages but I'm not up for providing support at the moment. Then I try to seek support from other friends, generally other online friends as I'm not very social offline besides the people I live with, but also sometimes my parents, who I have a bit of a weird relationship with, but things could definitely be much worse - they take my mental health seriously, at least! One of my siblings also lives with us (the rest have moved out), but they prefer to hang out with me at pre-scheduled times, having their own mental health issues. Anyway, after seeking support, I try to give myself a little alone time, like five minutes or so, before asking myself, "Am I ready to provide support to (my boyfriend)?" Depending on what support, if any, I received, the answer can differ, and I act accordingly - trying other coping skills or the like if I'm still in a bad place. I think I'll try to make a habit of checking in with him after I ask myself that question even if I'm still not up for providing support, just to find out how he's doing. But with the treatment taking effect as I said, I believe that being in a place where I'm unable to provide support will happen much less often.

This is kind of off the original topic of this thread, but I think it's relevant. I worry sometimes that my boyfriend is too dependent on me. He says sometimes that I "literally" saved his life - I assume in terms of keeping his mental health from dropping too hard - and while of course I'm glad that confessing to each other and eventually starting a relationship helped his life improve, I worry that he kind of... worships me a bit too much. I love him too of course, but it feels a bit strange that I can't remember him ever expressing even the least bit of frustration with me. He's pretty good at establishing his boundaries, and I respect them of course, but I also worry that when I lean on him for support, I'm asking too much of him because his situation and mental health is significantly worse, in my opinion at least. I'm pretty sure I've never intentionally taken advantage of him in any way, but I worry that he overextends himself for my sake without telling me that. I know the best solution is talk to him about this, and I think we've talked about similar things before, but I don't want to approach it indelicately and end up making him think he's a bad boyfriend or something. He's always been very understanding of when I establish my boundaries, but speaking as someone who has experienced the kind of severe depression he's dealing with now, I can imagine about a dozen different ways I could've taken the same sentiment I should express badly while severely depressed, if the roles were reversed. I guess part of it is that I don't want him to feel like he has to feel or express his feelings for me in any particular way, but I love him and don't want to hurt him, and the way he seems to almost worship me feels like, even though I'm doing my best not to take advantage of him at all, it could still be unhealthy for him. I guess I worry because I care.

[Mo]

I think it's great that you're thinking about the dynamic between the two of you and wondering if it's healthy or not. There are a few things you mention here that I think are important to look at a bit more closely, because there could be some potential for an unhealthy dynamic between the two of you. That doesn't mean that one exists now, or that it will definitely happen in the future, but it's good that you're asking these questions now.

You say you worry your boyfriend's too dependent on you, and that's important to consider; no matter how much you love him or how happy you are to offer support and social time, it's never going to be healthy to be the only source of support someone has. It's true too that a relationship will be healthiest when the people involved can spend time together (whether that's in person or the time they spend chatting online or via text) doing things other than offering direct support. Of course support is needed in any relationship from time to time, but if you ever feel like it revolves around you providing that support, then I think that's something to step back from and examine closely.
Do you know what his other friendships look like? It sounds like his parents may not take his situation seriously; are there other family members he's close to?

It sounds like you're doing a pretty good job of evaluating what level of support you're able to offer at any given time and letting him know, which is great! I think that's important to do, so I'm glad you're already on top of that.
Can you talk a bit about more about what he does that makes you feel like he's in that "worship" sort of mindspace? This is another dynamic that can wind up causing harm in relationships; if one person feels that they're being put on a pedestal, they may not feel like they have room to make mistakes, or like they aren't really being seen for who they are. Is this something you've ever been able to talk to him about?

[dependantdragon]

Sorry I took so long to respond; some of the people in my household got sick with Covid and it was my birthday, so I was really busy.

I'll be sure to ask about his other relationships with his family, but I do know he has at least one brother who seems to be very cruel and combative - getting angry at my boyfriend for small and/or unreasonable reasons, like coughing "loudly" when he was sick, and stirring up trouble between my boyfriend and their parents because he thinks my boyfriend is "the favorite". I've advised him to resolve the situation without resorting to violence or the like, such as refusing to do what his brother requests him until he does so politely, and I think he follows my advice, but I don't think I'm the best to know how to repair or at least mitigate harm to his relationship with this brother - I'm the youngest of five, but I'm seven years younger than the next-youngest, and the rest all have about a one or two year age gap between the next oldest/youngest. (Apparently I was an unintended conception.) As a result, I don't remember much of life with the two oldest before they left for college, and the other two were still so much older than me that we couldn't really interact as peers. So I don't think my experience is that useful to him when his brother (and possibly other siblings) are close to his age. I am pretty good at conflict resolution in general, but I know that a dynamic between two siblings who've had to live with each other all their lives is much different from the dynamics I'm used to dealing with.

As for his other friends, he mentions both in-real-life friends and online friends fairly often, but from what he's said to me, I get the feeling he isn't super close to most of them. I run a tiny Discord server I made for talking with close friends that I trust with important things, which he's been part of since before we confessed to each other, and I'm pretty sure that he and the others know they can ask me if they can invite others, but he has never asked to invite anyone else. Part of that might be how the server is; we talk about a lot of sensitive stuff that a lot of people wouldn't approve of (or might mock us/make callouts/etc. for), like youth sexuality and more taboo kinks/fetishes. But I would hope that he has at least one friend off-server who he doesn't feel like would judge him for such things. Even among the other people on the server, I can only think of one person who he seems specifically close to, though he's nice to all the others of course.

He's always understanding when I establish boundaries, but I still worry that by trying to make him less dependent on me, I'll be depriving him of support he needs at this rough part of his life. I've experienced at least one similar relationship (this one just a friendship) from the other side, that I'm still working on improving. (Which is part of my worries - my boyfriends asks me for support, I provide it, and then I sometimes have to go ask this friend for support, when I'm trying to lean on her less.) So I know that people don't become overly dependent on a specific person without there being real need.

As for the "worship" part - as I said, he says that I "literally" saved his life; he says a lot how, um, attractive I am (we've only sent SFW pictures to each other due to him being underage (and I was also underage when we started dating)); and in general just seems more... fixated on his feelings for me, than how my feelings for him tend to express themselves. The fact that I'm noticing this feels to me like it could be a sign of several different problems - just my low self-esteem, his own low self esteem, him adoring me too much that it might cause problems in our relationship or in other places in his life, or just... that I don't love him enough, or express that love enough. I'm 100% sure I do love him romantically, but due to trauma I won't get into, I tend to repress all my feelings, good and bad. Before the treatment I mentioned, I couldn't remember the last time I got genuinely angry. I still feel very repressed in comparison to most people or how I was when I was younger, especially in terms of feeling joy or anger (I can do sad really well though lol), and while I know in my head that this involuntary repression isn't my fault, it sometimes makes me feel unfit to be his significant other, because I don't seem to be able to feel love for him in the same way he seems to for me. Nothing I think from what he's said, just, my own insecurities I guess.

I've written stories, including fanfiction, for a long time, a lot of which is romance, and while I love dynamics like protector/protected and intense life-saving love and other sappy stuff, I know that in real life things are different. I try to make my stories realistic because I enjoy that more, but in stories you can change things to suit the narrative you want - like my current "one true pair", involving an original character of mine, where the "protector" has a need to protect the other one, and the "protected" has a need to feel security in a relationship; to fall in love with someone, she needs them to make her feel safe. That's simplifying things a lot, but it's dynamic that could be unhealthy if you changed some stuff, but works out to make them both happy and fulfilled the way I have it. ...I can't entirely remember why I started this paragraph, but I think it had something to do with how the fact that my boyfriend seems so completely enamored with me, like a romance story, but I can't help but worry that it'll lead to problems. Especially since I don't feel like I'm the person he seems to think I am, and it feels a little like I'm lying to him when he expresses how amazing he thinks I am.

[Sam W]

Hi dependantdragon,

That information is all really helpful! It seems like you're very thoughtful when it comes to relationship dynamics and how they can go, which is great!

When he says all those positive things about you and heaps on the praise, do you get any good feelings from it, even if they're fleeting? Or does it immediately trigger those doubts and fears you mentioned? Too, do you feel like he only ever sees you through that "worship" lens? Or does it feel like most of the time he can and does see you for the person you are, flaws and all?

I ask that last question because, to me, one of the big differences between adoration that could be a problem and adoration that's a healthy part of a partner loving us is whether it prevents them from seeing us as a whole person. When someone thinks we're perfect and can do no wrong, that can for sure lead to some not-great situations. But sometimes, that adoration is more them saying, "hey, I know you, the full you, and I still think you're awesome."

[dependantdragon]

Hi; sorry I took so long to respond; I had a bunch of things come up after I sent the last reply and then just completely forgot about this. I would say that most of the time when my boyfriend praises me I do feel happy first, though if I'm feeling particularly bad already my brain tends to find problems with it, trying to convince me that he's lying or the like. I more worry when he says stuff about how I saved him from a really bad time in his life, or that he'd be devastated if he lost me. It feels... pressuring, to have someone need you like that, and I don't understand how I'm so amazing as all that, even if he says all I need to do to make him feel better is listen to him and stuff. Due to how the situation has changed - my depression has flared up a lot due to multiple reasons - I feel bad because he must be having a really tough time too, but I'm often too absorbed in my own pain to feel bad for him, which makes me feel like an awful s/o. It's a problem I've been having; I'm too absorbed in how bad I have it to be able to handle it when other people have it bad, too. Because it feels like their problems are... in conflict with mine, somehow. I should really talk to my therapist about this... One of my friends said I'm really self-absorbed, and I guess it's true, because I don't think I have the ability to care about other things when I'm in pain. But that just makes me feel awful because I feel like I'm being selfish, so I feel worse, and it snowballs.

[Heather]

y bad already my brain tends to find problems with it, trying to convince me that he's lying or the like. I more worry when he says stuff about how I saved him from a really bad time in his life, or that he'd be devastated if he lost me. It feels... pressuring, to have someone need you like that, and I don't understand how I'm so amazing as all that, even if he says all I need to do to make him feel better is listen to him and stuff. Due to how the situation has changed - my depression has flared up a lot due to multiple reasons - I feel bad because he must be having a really tough time too, but I'm often too absorbed in my own pain to feel bad for him, which makes me feel like an awful s/o. It's a problem I've been having; I'm too absorbed in how bad I have it to be able to handle it when other people have it bad, too. Because it feels like their problems are... in conflict with mine, somehow.

I'm going to come at this a different way than your friend did. I trust your own judgement when it comes to knowing yourself and the dynamics here, so you'll be the best person to know what really sounds like you.

Two very depressed -- or even just two kinda depressed! -- people can be a really rough mix in a relationship, especially at times when both people are actively in depression. Depression, in and of itself, for pretty much everyone, tends to make us very myopic, to make it so that it is very, very difficult to see outside of ourselves and the depression. That's not a character flaw, it's a hallmark of this particular mental illness, just like say, a runny nose tends to be a hallmark of a cold.

"Selfish" is such a loaded term that so many people have learned = bad, but in reality, there are just times or situations that not only are we potentially incapable of focusing much on others, but that we actually need to focus on ourselves instead. If two actively depressed people are putting all their very limited energy into trying to care for the other, chances are awfully good that no one is actually going to be cared for very well, because no one is probably getting the self-care they need OR are able to do a lot for someone else. Does that make sense?

Have you two talked about things like how some of these things he says feel like pressure for you (and I can certainly see why!)? How about talking about being two depressed people in a relationship? Have you talked about that, maybe shared some books or other kinds of guidance about how to do this best? Made some plans or agreements about how you can still be together, but give one another time and space to focus on and care for yourselves when you're deep in depression?

[dependantdragon]

I think we've been doing pretty well recently, honestly; we could probably be doing better, but that's true of most things. I'm pretty sure I have expressed to him when I feel pressured, but I think my main problem is that I tend to keep quiet on certain things because I feel like if I express it now, I'll put it in a way that's too mean. He does tend to react like "Oh my gosh I'm so sorry" in a way that sometimes makes me feel bad for bringing it up, but I also understand where he's coming from for that. I tend to react the same way internally, though externally I'm often more... defensive, I think because of the worry that if I admit how I'm actually feeling, I'll spiral, or seem like I'm just trying to get sympathy.

I didn't know that about depression, the thing with being myopic... that explains a lot. It's practically impossible for me to try and consider others if I'm already in pain or upset. My ability to empathize just shuts down. And I've gotten yelled at for it a lot, like with the friend I mentioned, or with my sibling who lives with my parents and I. People say that they feel like nothing they ever do for me is enough, but I don't know how to decrease the big need I have.

As for "selfish", well - "selfish" conflicts hard with my image of myself, or at least, the person I want to live as. It's probably due to my upbringing (my parents are Roman Catholic), but being called selfish or self absorbed or the like is the worst possible thing to call me. I'm trying to unlearn it, but it's hard, with the huge emotional need I have, which means I have to keep asking for help over and over, making me feel more selfish. And then when I ask too much from someone, they call me selfish or the like, and I get worse. I wish I just... wasn't so self-absorbed. Or at least, not so needy.

Anyway, yeah, that does make sense, which is why I'm trying to push my boyfriend to find other forms of support besides me. It's... not going too well, honestly. Sometimes I feel like I'm his only real friend, based on the way he talks about his friends both on and offline, and his family who should be supporting him. In exchange I try to only depend on him when I absolutely need to, but with recent circumstances, that's getting harder and harder to do - I end up relying on him more and more. Though asking him to find other forms of support is a bit hypocritical of me, because I'd been trying to make new friends online for several years, but relatively recently withdrew from all public servers because I get too defensive and end up making things worse for myself and hurting others. I've been trying to work with my therapist to figure out how to not be so defensive and feel safer in public online spaces, but it's... not going so great. There's so much else to work on with my therapist, after all. And what few friends I do have... one that I've depended on a lot is really pulling away and prioritizing other things in her life over her relationship with me. Which doesn't feel good, feeling that I'm the thing she's choosing to sacrifice, when from my point of view she has so many other options.

[Sam W]

Hi dependantdragon,

It sounds like you're both dealing with a lot while also not having as robust a system of support as you really need, which can be so rough. It sounds like you in particular are having to unlearn some messages from your upbringing and that's not making this any easier (and big kudos to you for working to unlearning it!). I want to second Heather's point about selfishness and add that everyone, even people who seem like the most giving/nicest/etc humans out there will have times in their life where they have to choose selfishness; that's just part of having to get through the world as a person. Sometimes we're the ones who most need our own attention.

I hear you expressing a lot of concern that your needs are "too much" and that they lead to the people in your life being frustrated or angry with you. In the work you've done with your therapist, have you ever tried really looking at the needs you have, especially around other people? Because that could be a useful exercise in dealing with those concerns; it could help you start to internalize that you're not needing or asking too much and/or you might find that there are some things you need, or feel like you need, that aren't all that realistic and the two of you can brainstorm how to adjust some of those expectations so they're not adding to how crummy you feel.

With the work you're doing with your therapist around online spaces, is it not going great in the sense that it feels like progress is happening slowly? Or is it more that the approaches you've been trying just don't seem to work for you?

[dependantdragon]

Honestly this has gotten way off topic, but since y'all are continuing to engage with me despite the derailment, I guess it's okay?

I definitely understand with my head that one needs to be selfish sometimes, but it's hard to understand it with my heart. And it ties back to feeling like my needs are too much - due to trauma and what my childhood was like, I'm practically incapable of self-soothing; I need someone else's validation to go back to baseline and regulate. I read this thing once about how humans aren't born with the ability to regulate their own emotions, and build those neuron pathways as babies and young children by being soothed by their caretakers. That probably didn't happen to me nearly enough. There's a lot of backstory in it, but basically when I was upset I was treated - both at home and at school - as if I were misbehaving, or throwing a tantrum for attention. So I'd be punished for being overwhelmed. (I was diagnosed with autism spectrum disorder from a young age, so I was treated pretty badly by special education teachers who were... frankly awful at their jobs. They treated me as if I wasn't human.)

I can't really imagine a way for my needs to magically become less, not without a ton of effort. The thing is that I need people's support to improve, but people keep pulling away because I depend on them too much even though I'm trying to be less dependent on them. So when they pull away, I get worse, and need more support. It's a self-sustaining cycle.

I guess it's been going slowly? I have way too much to talk to my therapist about for just 45 minutes a week, tbh. We're doing video chat appointments since covid (they were much easier for me, so we kept doing them) And yeah, the approaches she suggests don't really work. As I said, I'm autistic, and one of the symptoms of that is that it's hard for me to talk about things I'm not interested in. I've mainly been focused on fandom lately (specifically Persona 5), so I tried joining servers based around that, but it was too... stressful. Often, when people just disagree with me, I feel like they're personally attacking me. And I was trying to expose myself to it to try and lessen that feeling, but it seemed to reinforce it instead. I tried explaining why I react this way and asking people to be patient with me, but the responses I got were basically "That's your problem, not ours". Which I mean, they're entitled to that, but having nowhere that's willing to accept me and meet me where I'm at... it's a lonely feeling. My therapist has suggested stuff like online support groups for autistic people, but I've had bad experiences with group settings like that - mainly in-person social groups I'd be forced to go to as a kid - and I just don't feel like I'd be able to connect with anyone there unless we had a shared interest.

Honestly, the worst part about it is my depression is really severe, but I feel like if I express to my parents or offline support system how bad it really is, I'll be forced to go to an inpatient hospitalization, where they don't allow you to bring electronics in. Being cut off from my online support network would be horrible - not to mention that my boyfriend would probably panic! I know I'm 19, but I'm still really dependent on my parents - I never finished high school because my mental health issues were so bad at the end of freshman year, and I don't often leave the house. I couldn't go buy things on my own or anything like that. I'm also scared that my psychiatrist - who I really don't like, but my parents love him for some reason - might force me to go to an inpatient hospitalization by refusing to renew my medication prescriptions unless I go. I'm pretty sure that's something he could do, and honestly, I wouldn't put it past him. But even when I do say "I need more help" to my parents, they seem convinced that we've tried everything else already and the only thing is to go to the hospital. Right now I'm waiting until after the holidays to start a second attempt at a ketamine treatment - it's the treatment I mentioned earlier in this thread, but it wasn't as effective the first time because my house got covid and I had to stop partway through, then finish the rest of the sessions. Apparently if you don't do them all close enough together it's not as effective. If the ketamine doesn't work, I don't know what I'm going to do. Also, I've been on birth control for a while due to issues with my period (which I hate having in the first place, because of gender dysphoria and sensory issues) and my gynecologist recently upped the dosage to try and see if a higher dose would work better (since the initial dose hadn't really been working anymore), but according to my psychiatrist, that can make other medications less effective, but no one's done anything like, given me more antidepressants to counter the decrease in effectiveness, despite me asking for it at least once. My parents aren't very good at listening to me, and extremely forgetful - they're both around 60, and starting to have memory problems. Mom in particular forgets things constantly. They're not very understanding about it though, and get mad at me when I get frustrated with them because of it. So... there's a lot of problems with my support network. I just wish there was some form of intense treatment that didn't involve having to give up all my electronics. Not to mention that sleeping over somewhere else would be stressful for me, both simply due to the change and because I have two pet parakeets that I'd worry about how they'd be doing without me, and they're a major emotional support for me. I don't think I've ever spent a full day away from them since I first got them.

[Mo]

It really does sound like you're in a place where the support you're getting isn't quite enough or what you need, and I can see how this would be really difficult for you! I don't know if this is something you've looked into or considered, but I wonder if a therapist who focuses on autistic patients might be a good fit. I have a couple friends who've found that having a therapist who has a really good understanding of how to help autistic people has been a huge help for them, because other therapists would suggest things that just didn't work at all or assumed they had a very different mental framework than they did.

I hope you're able to start the ketamine treatments again and that they're helpful! If it helps to hear someone else's personal experience, I've been doing esketamine treatments (they're functionally the same, for the most part) for almost a year now and have found them to be helpful, although it did take several treatments for me to notice results. I did find that they had an impact that years of medication did not, so I hope that you can also have a good response when your treatments resume.

[dependantdragon]

Yeah, I had about six sessions already; like I said they were supposed to be done close together, but covid. So hopefully I can do them all in succession this time.

I actually really like my therapist - I've had her for a few years now, probably since I was 16 or 17, and I think I have a good rapport with her. Maybe she doesn't understand my autism that much, but she's really good with discussions about sexuality - admittedly something I don't need as much help with since I'm not very shy about sex things, but I'd feel really weird transitioning to a new therapist and finding that I can't talk about sexuality in the same way. Plus I've already spent so much time building the relationship. I honestly think the problem is more on my side (and not just because of low self-esteem aha). I tend to prefer not to talk about difficult stuff when it comes down to it because of how hard it is for me to regulate afterwards. I've been meaning to start making notes of things I should talk to her about, but it just isn't happening... Essentially, I think my current therapist is a keeper; it's just hard to unlearn how I used to think of my therapists before. I've heard about how Freud and other early psychologists would take a man's money to give therapy to his wife, but only for the husband's benefit. I feel like the current reality of therapists for children is very similar; disabled or "misbehaving" children being sent to therapy not for real help, but to behave better for the person that's paying the therapist. I had three different therapists before; one who I had when I was really little and was very nice, but my parents switched me to this horrible woman who acted more like a special ed teacher than a therapist because my first therapist wasn't "challenging me enough" or something. Then I think the second therapist moved to a new practice and I got a new one who was just kind of... there for a while. She was nice, but for me, therapy was just another thing to check off the list, another task to complete like occupational therapy or speech therapy. I went and talked about my week, and left. So I'm trying to unlearn that and learn what therapy should be.

I will try to remember to mention to my therapist what you said about therapists who focus on autistic patients, though. I still don't want to switch to someone else, but maybe that information will help her approach things from a different angle.

[Nicole]

Hi dependantdragon,

It's interesting you mentioned ketamine treatments because one of my very close friends just started it! As Mo said, I hope it works out well for you. Anyways, if you have a solid relationship with your current therapist, then I would certainly continue seeing her. I know you mentioned this already but it might benefit both of you to ask about what she can do to work with neurodivergence/autism and her experience with behavioral therapy in general.

I understand your worries about therapy. Honestly, this is a major problem in the counseling community. For context, I'm currently studying psychology to pursue counseling. Treatment in psychology has been shifting a lot for a while now. You seem to be aware of that and what you want out of therapy, which is great! I've also experienced some therapists that sound awfully similar to yours, so I completely get it. I've heard the whole "your therapist is not challenging you enough" notion and sometimes it does stem from parents just wanting their children to have a "quick fix" in their behavior. However, therapists often "challenge" people by offering a different perspective or way of thinking so they can better understand whatever situation they're going through and how to work through it.

I'm far from a specialist in neurodivergence, but from my own experience, I might have an idea that could help with your future direction in therapy. I know you mentioned that keeping a list is impossible, but I recommend that you give it a try, especially so you can keep your thoughts organized and avoid them from overwhelming you. This might help you discuss difficult topics, as you can visualize/categorize them and work through them one by one. If anything, you can even utilize what you mentioned to us in your sessions. Sometimes it helps people to just write out a rant and read it out loud to their therapist. What do you think?

[dependantdragon]

I was *really* little at the time I was switched to the "more challenging" therapist, to the point that all I can remember of therapy before then is trying out different fidget toys and doing art projects. I don't think I was old enough for my parents to think of me as needing a challenge in my viewpoint the way you describe. And the therapist I was switched to was... really traumatizing for me. She'd regularly escalate situations the same way my teachers would, preferring to prove her point than help me calm down. And then restrain me, like the teachers at school. From her descriptions, I believe she once worked at one of the campuses of Camelot Therapeutic Day School, a for-profit company that I was, at one point, forced to transition to from public school for two and half years, a period of time that deeply traumatized me. If you're not familiar, there should be plenty of articles on the web about how the teachers and staff there treat their students - the quick-and-dirty version is that they treated us like we were both threats and complete idiots. I can't even enter a school building without my hands shaking visibly as a result of the stress I was under. So my therapist treated me in essentially the same way - making me read books that talked about teenagers (I hadn't even hit puberty yet at that point) as if they were dumb animals, and constantly insisting that me trying to establish boundaries and express my limits was me being in denial.

I do try to make a list sometimes - I use Google Docs a lot since I'm a writer (though I intend to switch to something else eventually) but something keeps stopping me from doing it when I think of it. I won't give up, though - I'll try my best to persuade myself to do it eventually. Also, the video chat thing my therapist uses has a built-in text chat, which I've made use of several times to discuss things that were hard for me to verbalize, or things that would upset me enough for it to become hard for me to speak. Communicating through typing is often easier for me - I can still hold complete conversations most times and the like, but when I'm overwhelmed, talking gets more and more difficult. Part of the problem with making a list, I've found, is that putting all those problems in one place makes me read them all - I read things automatically just by looking at them, I can't stop myself from reading - and then I get overwhelmed by how many problems I have and such.

[Nicole]

Thank you for clarifying a bit more and I'm really sorry to hear what you've gone through. I just wanted to let you know that I didn't assume that this therapist in particular productively challenged you and I'm sorry if it seemed like that! Just some miscommunication. I meant to say that your previous therapist was not doing the right thing, especially to a child, since I've learned how young you were. I feel like these "therapy" tactics that you mentioned should be abolished and I've heard that people have been working on it, similar to what's been going on with dismantling the Troubled Teen Industry.

I'm glad you've been making an effort to utilize Google Docs and the chat option during therapy! I've heard from several people that communicating through chat helps, so definitely continue doing that if it makes things easier for you. If making a list all on one page is too much, it might help to create separate pages on Google Docs where you can write out what you want to discuss--a separate page for a separate concern. You can organize them in a folder on Google Drive if you'd like. Another idea is utilizing the Notes app if you have an iPhone or any note-taking app on your device--a separate note for a separate concern. This might help you avoid seeing all of these concerns in one place so you can avoid any stress. How does that sound?

[dependantdragon]

Okay so, this is more on topic because it relates back to my boyfriend, since I've been getting a better idea of his situation recently.
Some backstory: I believe he got a laptop for his birthday this year or the year before, but it stopped working at some point. He was asking his parents to get it fixed, but they kept putting it off - only to give him a new laptop for Christmas. But apparently, in the middle of the night, the screen of his laptop (which he only got yesterday) broke. It's possible he leaned on it in his sleep. I encouraged him to tell his parents about it, but when he did, they reacted badly; I haven't gotten all the details, but his dad apparently threatened to punch him in the face. His parents have always been... bad, even worse than mine (who actually let me drop out of high school when it was too much) but I've only just now heard that he actually feels physically unsafe with them. I have no idea what to do; I feel that he would be safer without him, but he just turned 17, he's still a minor. I want to help him so badly, but I don't know what I can do, since I live in the USA, and laws and things are so different in the UK. And even if I could somehow pay for him to fly here, I don't think my parents would let him live with us. I'm scared for him and I don't know what to do. Sorry if this is against the rules or something, I'm kind of panicking.
Edit: A friend of mine who also lives in the UK sent me a link that I passed on to my boyfriend, to a site called Childline. Hopefully they will be able to help. But if there's anything else anyone here can help with this situation, please do.

[Heather]

I'm so very sorry to hear this.

Can you give me a sense of where in the UK he is, per finding some more resources?

Also: is there somewhere he can go sooner rather than later for a bit? A friend or their family? Extended family he feels safe with? A neighbor?

[dependantdragon]

I've talked to him about it and calmed down significantly; yesterday was pretty hard in general for multiple reasons. He says that going to another person's house is "a definite possibility, if a little hard to do". Like I said, he's also on the spectrum, so I imagine such a change would be hard for him. And since his mental health is really bad, it'd be hard for him to get a job, I imagine, especially since he's still in school, which is very draining for him as well. He lives in England, near London. And he says he did a counseling chat on the Childline website I sent him, and got some advice and mental health resources, so hopefully things will improve. I'm mostly dealing with a sense that I should be doing more for him, while also dealing with my own worsening mental health. I'm supposed to have my first ketamine appointment today, but while I've done it before and know more or less what to expect... I just don't really want to get dressed and leave the house. I'll probably be able to convince myself to, but with how things are, it's gonna be stressful. When I did my first ketamine treatment, I relied on one of my friends to help me regulate after, but said friend is on sort of a break right now. It's hard to explain, but me depending on her has been stressing her out... but so has a million other things in her life. And yet she chose me as the thing to sacrifice, even though my mental health is worse than ever before. It's really hard to deal with not only the lack of contact, but also the fact that she's chosen me as something to sacrifice, when there are plenty of other things in her life that she could try to cut out to reduce stress.

[Carly]

Hey dependantdragon -- I let Heather know you answered some of their questions. Because I don't know what resources they had in mind, I want to talk about what you said about your boyfriend and your frustration with your friend. I see a lot of connections here.

First of all, I want to assure you that you are already doing a lot by listening and trying to direct him to resources, especially if those around him are not taking him seriously. With living in another country, I'm not even sure if there's much else you can do right now. I'm getting the sense that you care very deeply about others, which is why I think you're frustrated that you can't be doing more. But I want to remind you of what you also said, which is that your own mental health is worsening. Does it feel important to push through that in order to make sure things get easier or better for your boyfriend? Are you more concerned about this or with what's going on with you on your end? There's not really a wrong answer here, but something you should remember is that you can't pour from an empty pitcher. Simply, we need to make sure we are full and have the capacity to give before we try to give. If we try to give when we can't, it becomes difficult for us to keep up with ourselves because everything we get goes to another place. A full pitcher looks different for everyone. Some people have larger capacities than others. But I just wanted to put out there that what is going on in your life is just as important and also requires energy and attention. Having to use your energy towards yourself is valid and often needed.

Now, to your friend. Remember what I was saying about pitchers and what not? It sounds like your friend discovered that hers is empty right now. I know this might be hard to hear, but she has every right to have boundaries with you. Sometimes boundaries others set with us just... hurt, plain and simple. Especially if they're someone who is supportive and someone we relied on in the past in hard situations. I'm sorry that her need to step away from your friendship is causing you to feel sacrificed and frustrated. I'm wondering - does this hurt you as much as it does because it's something you wouldn't do to her if your roles were reversed? It's important to remove what you would do or what you think should be cut out of her life to make it less stressful from how you look at her need to take a break. I think, in some ways, it actually shows that she cares for you a lot because she knows she can't show up for you the way you need. If you were to sit down at a table with a thirsty person with an empty pitcher, I don't think that person would feel like they're getting what they needed. They'd probably need someone with more in their pitcher. To me, it sounds like your friend is saying, "hold on, let me run go and fill this up for us."

Does any of this resonate with you? Envisioning pitchers really helped me understand caring capacity when I was in a very similar situation to you, so I'm hoping it helps.