Trouble Enjoying Sex?

[Crow]

Hi,

I'm a sex favorable asexual who enjoys the idea of sex in theory, but I find that I just don't get much out of it in practice. I really want to enjoy it, and while I don't necessarily feel an active desire for it, I think it could be enjoyable for me. But when I have sex, I just don't find it as enjoyable as I feel like it should be. I much prefer masturbation as apposed to partnered sex.

What could I do to figure out why I don't enjoy sex, and how could I then try to make it more enjoyable for myself?

[Sam W]

Hi Crow,

I think there are a few starting questions we can ask to figure this out! This first is, what do you think--or expect--enjoyable sex to feel like? And when you think about partnered sex compared to masturbation, can you pinpoint any differences that seem to contribute to masturbation being the more pleasurable activity for you?

[Crow]

I have a lot of trouble pinpointing what exactly it is that I expect enjoyable sex to feel like other than just <i>enjoyable,</i> but I can try. I guess I expect it to feel more significant and emotionally fulfilling, as well as just generally more physically pleasurable than it actually ends up being.

The only thing I can think that would make masturbation the more pleasurable activity is that my sensitivity is fairly low, so maybe not having full control means that I'm not feeling as much as I could if I <i>was</i> in full control. Although, even with something like mutual masturbation where I do have full control, I still find it less pleasurable than if I was completely alone.

[Carly]

Hi Crow -- I'm going to back up a few steps here. I'm wondering, what inspired wanting to sort this out? I'm not trying to talk you out of it, but I think you articulated your feelings about sex really clearly. You like the idea of sex in theory, but in practice it hasn't been enjoyable and you don't really feel an active desire for it so you prefer masturbation. What feels necessary to pinpoint, and why does it feel like it needs further defining? I'm asking all of this because I want to make sure that figuring out how to enjoy partnered sex isn't something you want to explore and think about because you think you have to. Or feel like you need a reason in order to justify how you feel about it. If it feels hard to pinpoint... maybe that's just as far as the answer goes. Maybe it is as simple as you prefer masturbation. Does it have to have a reason, or would it feel better to have a reason? Again, we are so happy to continue to talking this through with you! I'm just suggesting that maybe you actually have your answer already. Am I on to something here?

[Crow]

I suppose it goes back to, as I said, liking the idea of sex in theory. I want to know if I'm capable of enjoying sex, because I do want to enjoy it, simply for myself. I want to know if I genuinely just don't enjoy it or if I've been having "bad" sex. I like having solid answers to things and I suppose I just don't like knowing if I actually don't enjoy sex or if I'm simply approaching things wrong/having sex with the wrong person/need to try something different.

[Carly]

Gotcha, that helps me understand a little but more. When you think of these past experiences, what did they have in common? What was different, and have any of those times felt more fulfilling?

[Crow]

Usually the only thing that each experience has had in common is that I end up feeling unfulfilled and a bit upset by the end, mostly because I feel unfulfilled and like I should've enjoyed it more. Though I think its important to note that it's less like I'm upset with myself for enjoying it because that's whats "normal", but more because I simply want to enjoy it and don't understand why I don't.

The most enjoyable sex I've had has been with my current girlfriend, in which the biggest difference is simply both of us having more experience than in previous relationships and being more open with communication about/during sex. I don't find it unpleasant, I just wish I was enjoying it more. I like feeling close with her but I feel like there should be more to it than what I've been feeling, both physically and emotionally. I'm incredibly satisfied in the romantic aspect of our relationship (something that is also new for my sexual partners) but the sex feels lacking in a way I can't explain, I just feel like it's not enough. It makes me wonder if I'm instead just expecting too much from sex, but then I hear how other people talk about it and then assume that I'm instead just not having good sex.

[Sam W]

Hi Crow,

You know, it sounds like you and your partner are on the right track when it comes to helping sex be enjoyable. That communication you're describing is key, and it's great that you two are learning to be more open with it! If you ever need extra tools for that, that's absolutely something we can help you with.

It is very possible that some of this has to do with expectations and how sex is represented compared to your experiences of it; we know that's something plenty of people bump into, especially when they're still relatively new to sex. When you think about how you hear other people describing sex, how do their descriptions generally make it sound?

[Crow]

I, again, have a bit of trouble pinpointing this, but I'll try to explain and hope it makes sense.

I just feel like for most people sex is satisfying in some way to them, be it emotionally or physically. I feel like a lot of people are eager to talk about it with others if it was especially enjoyable, and that they have certain things about the interaction that stand out as particularly enjoyable and even ideas of what they want to do next time. It just seems like something that people enjoy enough that they feel satisfied and happy about it in some way and I don't feel that way.

[Heather]

Hey there, Crow.

I wonder if you might fill us in on what "having sex" looks like for you? In other words, what does it involve? Do any of those activities, whatever they are, feel more or less pleasurable and fulfilling for you?

Can I also ask what your motivation is when you choose to initiate any kind of sexual activity? Does it come from a place of desire, like to be touched and to touch, to be physically close, to explore pleasure and sensation, etc. or is it coming from something else, like a feeling you should keep trying it to make it work, to find in it what has been missing for you, or because your partner wants and expects you to be sexual with them?

[Crow]

I suppose I've done different things each time, while also depending on which partner I was with. In my current sexual relationship, my partner likes performing oral on me, which doesn't do a ton for me but I don't dislike it and she enjoys it so I'm happy to let her do it. I typically prefer to just masturbate while in her lap, though I also did get some enjoyment from her pegging me, but even those don't feel as nice as I'd prefer.

I only initiate sex if it's something I feel like doing, usually when I happen to be aroused while with my girlfriend. I do it less because I want to see if I can make it work and more so just hoping that it will be more enjoyable this time, but I'm sure to only initiate it when it's something I want, even though the desire isn't specifically for sex but moreso just general pleasure and a want for touch.

[Heather]

Thanks for this.

So, it's interesting to me that I hear you saying you mostly have a desire for touch and more general pleasure but the only thing I'm seeing you say sex is for you is genital. Does your sexual life together not include other ways of being sexual, and touch and sensation of your whole bodies, rather than a focus on genitals?

[Crow]

I'm having a lot of trouble making my response for this one cohesive, it's all a bit complicated and hard to pick apart for me. There is usually more touch than just genital stimulation, but that's a bit complicated for me. Firstly, I genuinely can't distinguish sexual and nonsexual pleasurable touch, so I have a lot of trouble knowing what exactly to ask for in that regard. On top of that, something I find pleasurable one day may barely register to me on another. And then finally, too many sensations make it hard for me to focus on what I am able to distinguish as sexual touch, or I will simply find them all too overwhelming together. Even some small contact can make it impossible for me to focus during sex. I'm not sure if I understand what you mean by "other ways of being sexual", though.

[Heather]

I appreciate that. This can all be really complicated even in the simplest iterations!

So, when I talk about being sexual, what I'm talking about are ways your actively express and explore your sexual feelings, alone or with a partner. That can certainly include genital sex, but it both doesn't have to just be that, sex can also not involve genitals at all. For example, someone might be sexual with a partner with an extended kissing and full-body massage session: that can be what "sex" was for them that day. Maybe the next day what sex is is sexting, and maybe the day after that it's a bunch of cuddling and kissing with genital intercourse.

I do want to validate some of what you're saying, too: it's actually not uncommon for people to find that they don't like the same things every day, and for that to vary, sometimes wildly. I also would say that finding a clearly distinguished line between what's sexual and nonsexual in terms of pleasure or touch is also pretty common: for it to be kind of mushy is pretty normal for all of us. More times than not, my impression is that a lot of people categorize what's sexual and nonsexual either just by what's genital or isn't, by what they experience as directly related to someone's orgasm, or by pretty arbitrarily just putting things in the sex and not-sex box.

Another question:

Firstly, I genuinely can't distinguish sexual and nonsexual pleasurable touch, so I have a lot of trouble knowing what exactly to ask for in that regard.

I may be misunderstanding you, but is there a reason you can't just ask for what feels good to you with your partner without it mattering if that is something they or you consider sexual or nonsexual?

[Crow]

I suppose I don't really think of anything without genital stimulation to be sex to me, personally. I think that circles back around to not being able to distinguish sexual and nonsexual touch. If I can't explicitly recognize what I'm feeling as something sexual, then I don't think of it as sex. I don't know that I'd ever considered some of the things you mentioned as sex before, and I still don't know if I would consider some of them sex for myself personally. So I suppose while I may do some of those things, I don't really think of them as sex.

Not asking for certain touch also goes back to not being able to distinguish nonsexual and sexual touch, as well not knowing what I'll enjoy in that moment and not wanting to end up overwhelmed or unable to focus. I already have difficulty focusing during sex, so trying to think of what might feel good is hard. I could at least deal with the issue of trying to find what I would enjoy before actually having sex, but it doesn't take away the fact that I will likely find it overstimulating or too much to focus on.

[Heather]

Thanks again, this is helping me get a clearer picture. I'm sorry to keep asking you questions, but I have a couple more, if you don't mind:

1) What if you two simply are exploring any of this together -- physically in the moment, not intellectually ahead of time -- and you do find a given thing overstimulating or too much to keep your attention? Is it okay to find those things out and then just correct course (okay with/for you, and for your partner), or is it not okay in some respect?

If that's too abstract, as an example, would it be okay for you two to just hang out and explore touch across all of each other's bodies and feel out what feels good that day, what has either of you at a nope, what makes either or you feel more curious to explore more or keep doing?

2) What if it doesn't actually matter what is or isn't sex in anyone's mind, and instead, the focus is just on you just exploring pleasure together?

[Crow]

1) I feel like the primary issue is that, even if we do that, either way the touch will likely either be too much in some way (if it's something I do find enjoyable in some way) or I won't notice it much (if it's something like just resting a hand somewhere), and so in either scenario I don't feel like it effects me positively in much of any way. Correcting course would simply be not doing it at all.

2) I suppose overall it doesn't really matter, I simply think of things in categories, but I also feel like the distinction matters circumstantially when I'm trying to figure out if I'm able to enjoy sex. It only becomes harder to do if I'm not sure what is considered sex and what isn't, and so those distinctions at least matter to me in that regard.

[Heather]

I have a little to say about #2 there, and then another question.

I would actually posit that trying to create rigid boxes for what is and isn't sex is often a barrier for people trying to just find out what they want and like. If we didn't live in a world that made sex so loaded, including within relationships that also are often distinguished as "sexual" (even if they are so much more than that, or not sexual all the time), that might be different. But since we do, I really do think that trying to find what you like that way -- by starting with trying to sort out what is and isn't sex to you -- is at best a long, roundabout way of finding out what you enjoy, and at worst, a giant barrier.

Instead, I can't encourage you enough to start with just your own curiosity about intimacy and touch, much in the same way that, say, you might go shopping for a sweater. You'd look at a bunch of them, feel how they feel on your skin, see if you like how they feel on. Get what I mean?

Here's both the caveat and the question: when you say something could be "too much," what I can't work out is if that is a barrier or not. When things feel like too much, is that traumatic or painful for you? Does it activate any trauma? Or can something feel like "too much," and you can just be like, "That's too much, let's try like this instead," and have it be no big whoop? Perhaps obviously, what I'm saying above might not be the right thing if too much = terrible for you.

[Crow]

I feel very stuck after this one.

I don't know how to not put things in boxes. They don't feel like strict guidelines to me, but simplifications that make it easier for me to understand my own feelings. Something can move from one box to the other, but those categories make it possible for me to have any understanding of what I'm feeling, and if I don't understand what I'm feeling it upsets me.

I am aware of what feels good to me as separate, individual sensations, they just don't seem to translate over to sex. I don't know how to further explore this if I already know certain things feel good but don't work for me during sex. I understand that you're talking about exploring intimacy and touch outside of sex, I just struggle to know what to in that regard that could help me if I already know what feels good.

When something feels like "too much", it doesn't necessarily hurt so much as it just overstimulates me and makes me feel deeply uncomfortable. Any positive stimulation that had been there is overridden by feeling overwhelmed and uncomfortable. It can be hard to back out of that feeling once it's started, even if whatever contact made me feel that way is stopped, so it very much takes me out of things and makes it difficult to continue. Even without contact that makes me feel overwhelmed, I end up feeling this way during partnered sex after about 30-45 minutes of stimulation.

[Heather]

I really appreciate you putting so much effort into trying to get clear on this with me.

I hear you on the "too much." It definitely sounds like if and when that happens, it isn't something you can kind of bounce from easily, and like it is upsetting for you. That given, I would ignore some of my earlier suggestions if anything in there seems likely or a given to create that for you. We certainly don't want to compound what you're grappling with already by putting any trauma or avoidable bad experiences on it!

I do wonder, though, if perhaps you could set aside any of what you've previously considered to be sex right now to just explore pleasurable touch in ways that work for you, and then perhaps revisit partnered sex, in the way you think of it, once you have some more experience with, and information from, that way of exploring pleasure.

It might help to know that the big parts of what most often makes sex satisfying for people for whom it is aren't things you might consider sex, or what makes sex, sex, at all. A report on this study from a colleague sums up some of it really well: https://www.theguardian.com/lifeandstyl ... macy-study Things like the stuff mentioned there -- being fully present, being communicative and responsive, scheduling time for intimacy, expanding how you define sex, real emotional connectedness during any kind of sex, leading with/incorporating the stuff you really, really like (and for you to date, sounds like that may be masturbation: might that be something to try with your partner if you haven't already?) -- tend to be bigger players than, say, being touched in any specific way or doing certain activities.

I do also want to say that something else we know from Peggy and Dana's studies is that a lot of people having what they report as truly great sex didn't get there until their 30s, 40s, or even later. In fact, their studies found that a lot of people din't start having what they consider great sex until after 50. You are just 18, in the very beginning of your lifetime of varied sexual experience, so I wouldn't expect that you, or many other young people, will be having off-the-chain sex very often yet, simply because it is actually something that tends to take practice and a lot of learning about ourselves over time. As someone who identifies with asexuality, you probably are also going to experience some of this very differently than allosexual folks will, so if any of your expectations have that basis, then yeah, you might also want to personalize them better for yourself, you know?

[Crow]

I feel like I'm struggling to imagine how setting aside my ideas of what counts as sex could help, not in the sense that I necessarily think it's impossible that it could help, but just that I struggle to see it working with what I know about myself. Again, I know what forms of touch and intimacy I find pleasurable, and since I cannot distinguish sexual and nonsexual touch (and evidently, general intimacy), I'm having trouble imagining how exploring it separately can help when I already know how different types of touch make me feel and how certain actions make me feel, without inherently viewing them as sexual. maybe I should, instead, say that I'm trying to figure out if I can enjoy partnered genital stimulation (but that feels pretty clunky). I just am having a lot of trouble figuring out what I could possibly explore further when I already feel like I know how my body and mind react to things pretty well.

I feel like my partner and I do, or at the very least try to do, most of the things listed in that article as best we can. While it certainly all makes me feel more safe and open with her, it evidently hasn't done anything to help me enjoy the experience much thus far. But, still, I know those are all things to continuously work on and communicate openly about, so maybe they could help more in the future.

I understand that I'm young and it's unlikely for me to be having amazing sex right now, but it becomes harder and harder to want to keep trying when I'm not sure if I'm even capable of enjoying it at all. It's hard to have any hopes of enjoying it better with time and experience and further understanding if I can't decide if it's better to keep trying with the possibility of never enjoying it as much as I wish I did, or to simply remain unsatisfied with not knowing.

[Heather]

I'm so sorry if I'm not hitting the mark here, and I can understand why you're feeling the way you are.

Here's one thing I can say with complete certainty: if you are having ANY kind of sex that you are not going into feeling a lot of desire to be doing whatever that is (and I don't mean a desire to make sex better, I mean a desire to be sexual with yourself or another person in that moment and only for that moment), it is by no means a good idea to keep doing that. Being sexual because we think we should or must, because we think we have to to achieve something, anything like that, is rarely going to result in sex we enjoy and will often also create, sustain and grow negative feelings about sex and sexuality.

It does sound to me like you might actually be well-served by tabling any way of being sexual with a partner until you're first sure that that really feels like a thing you want to do and enjoy doing in and for the now, even if the level of enjoyment isn't meeting your expectations. Going without this for at least a little bit (or at least until you're sure of the answer to that questions) could potentially:
• let you know if you miss it to help you figure out if it's something you really want
• give you more time to think about all of this on your own without having to be concerned about a partner's wants at the same time
• let you explore some fantasy about the kind of sex you're not sure about in your own masturbation so you can get a better sense of how much that turns you on or not
• give you space to just kind of reset yourself with all of this so that you're not carrying over the frustration and worry it sounds like you've built up around this

To me, when you say you're not sure if you're capable of enjoying it at all, like you just did, the response I have is that any time you are not 100% sure you're enjoying it or will is a time to nix it or to stop doing whatever you're doing that you aren't sure you're enjoying. But at a minimum, I'd suggest only going back into any kind of partnersex if and when you feel pretty sure that it's something you want and enjoy as you experience it, versus what your expectations are.

Does that make sense?

[Crow]

I don't think I have ever had a (consensual) sexual experience that I didn't initiate purely out of a want to be sexual with someone. These feelings of dissatisfaction and a want to know if I can enjoy sex more come after I've had sex for the first time in a while, and I try to put them behind me by the next time. I don't feel as if I'm having sex with the intention of knowing if I can enjoy it more, but rather just because I want to. I simply feel like wanting to know if I can enjoy it more is just one of several reasons to continue trying, and by no means the main one. The main one is simply that I want it and I like to hope that it will make me feel good.

I also don't mean to make it sound like I gain absolutely no pleasure or enjoyment from sex, or that I don't enjoy it in the slightest. I simply wish I was able to gain more from it and feel more satisfied with it by the end, which is something I haven't been feeling, and I think by growing more frustrated I'm distancing myself from the fact that I do gain some pleasure from it and instead focusing on what isn't there, rather than what is. But I simply don't know how I could figure if I could enjoy sex as much as I'd like to until I finally reach the point where I do enjoy it more. I don't go into sex with expectations, but I don't think I can fully remove my sexual experiences from expectations either. Even if I go into sex purely for the experience of that moment (which I do), I don't think I can completely stop having eventual expectations for sex to get better.

[Heather]

Hey, Crow. I don't mean to leave you hanging! I just had a feeling that some of the missing each other might be because I'm not the best fit for you for any number of reasons. Sometimes that happens!

So, I have a shoutout to other staff and our volunteers here to see if one of them can pick this up with you in the case that one of their approaches or ways of relating is just better for you. Given how confused and frustrated you already feel, I don't want us to add to that if we can avoid it. <3

[Crow]

I totally understand, hopefully someone else will be able to help me out! :]