New relationship

[squintern]

So I've been seeing this guy for about a month and a half now, and he's wonderful. We get along really well, he's super patient and understanding, and we have real conversations about stuff like reproductive rights, politics, sexual orientation, and sex itself without any awkwardness or embarrassment. I'm a very intellectual person with strong opinions, so I love that I don't have to skirt around topics that mean a lot to me. When we're not deep in conversation, he treats me like I'm the most amazing woman he's ever met (and I actually managed to distract him completely from our conversation by wearing make up last time we went out, haha). This is both awesome and totally weird for me.
I've never been in a romantic relationship past a couple of bad dates before, so as much as I appreciate his attention and love that he views me that way, it's a bit of a shock to the system that someone is actually paying attention to me and how I look as a thing in itself and not as part of a larger picture or setting. It's really changing the way I view myself. I've never put a lot of stock in how I look, since it's never been something that people around me (or people I've seen as worthwhile keeping around) have focused on-- generally I'm known for my intelligence/hard work, and I've definitely never been one of the 'cool/pretty girls'. I also don't place a huge amount of importance on physical attraction to a partner and find that intellectual compatibility and emotional connection are just as, if not more important. There are very few guys I can think of, even celebrities, who elicit an immediate reaction of 'he's so hot, I want to bang him' from appearances alone (I generally fall for characters not actors).
This new type of relationship is really throwing me off mentally. I wouldn't say it's necessarily causing conflict, but it's just so foreign and unexpected to me that I don't know where I stand.

We've been out on, I think, five dates, which have gone really well. He kissed me on our second date which I was super nervous about (not in not-wanting-it way, just in an anticipatory way). He said later he could see in my eyes I was panicking. I don't have an outward panic mode, and very rarely have any real panic feelings, but social interactions particularly of the intimate sort do fall into that category. On our next date we hung out at his place and kissed a lot with some stroking. He initiated making new moves which I was ok with because I don't have any experience and would prefer to be guided by him to the point that I'm happy to reach. I did step back a couple of times and assert that I wasn't comfortable to do particular things which he seemed ok with but he then tried to do the same thing a bit later. He said he just 'got lost in the moment' which I can understand but it was a tiny bit annoying when I thought back on it. Overall, he seems happy to move at a pace that I'm happy with but I do get the idea he wants to skip stations so to speak to get to more exciting stuff than what we've done. My point of view, which I've explained to him, is that I want to take time to get to know each different aspect of intimacy and not rush through to get to oral and intercourse. Because I have no experience, I want to value each new thing as it comes up.

Last time we went out which was a couple of weeks ago (he's been on holiday and we've both been busy with work since, ugh), we ended up parked in his estate before I took him home. We were kissing and I made the comment that I wanted to make sure we communicate plenty as far as what we're doing at the moment and where we want to go from there. I also asked him what his sexual experience has been since I've been open about my lack of, and I curious to know his half of the puzzle as long as he was willing to share. He tells me he's done pretty much everything bar intercourse/anal sex and the only reason he's never had intercourse is because he's been 'unlucky'. Immediately after that he moves to initiate me giving him oral sex. I was a little bit baffled at first because a) we were in my car with the console between us which made for kind of awkward positioning, and b) because I felt like we'd skipped over the whole range of manual activities and taken a bit of a leap. I feel like it's important for me to point out here that I don't feel like I'm necessarily emotionally/mentally not ready or unhappy to partake in oral sex, etc.; I just feel like there are skills I should know going into that arena that I don't necessarily have yet. But by all means, if he's happy to go there without me having any idea of what to do, good for him. At this point he gets his penis out and I point out that I would really like him to tell me what he likes/wants because I have no idea. He guides my hand to the appropriate position and says 'then you basically go down on me' (which was totally not adequate instruction haha). I interrupt his little mental path to bliss by explaining that I need him to wear a condom. Luckily, he obliges immediately with minimal comments to the contrary (score!). We end up being interrupted before anything happens by the security for his estate driving around.

After we arrive at the conclusion that nothing sexy was going to happen in that car, he launches to an expansion of his 'too unlucky to have sex' story, involving many occasions where girls have wanted him to come over but he couldn't due to not having a car/license, and how one time he was about to and the condom she had "wouldn't fit" so they didn't do anything. On one hand I was glad to hear he didn't push for condomless sex, but on the other hand I couldn't help being a little bit baffled as far as just how big his penis had to be to not fit (at all, from what he made out, not just being uncomfortable) in a standard condom. I've felt his erect penis by this point, but not really had a good look at it, due to being busy kissing the first time, and it being dark this time. Obviously it's also a bit hard to judge because I have nothing to compare it to. He then continues to explain how now he has these special condoms he orders online because they're the only ones that fit him, and then gets a bit disappointed when he realises he's wasted one of his precious mail-order condoms on our interrupted attempt. He does kind of make this into a big deal. We laugh it off and plan to find some time/space to be alone in something a bit bigger than my car so we can make another go at it. To be honest, although I felt ok with the way we were moving at the time, I'm kind of glad that security guy happened to be cruising. Thinking back on the situation I really don't think it was the ideal time/place to be getting that intimate, especially since I'm not totally comfortable with intimacy as a whole yet anyway.

So there are a few offshoots from that point:

A) Since then I have had a bit of a read of the penis size article on here and done some research into the actual sizes of condoms we can buy in store. I'm wondering if he is genuinely that big, whether he was under the impression it was supposed to fit looser than it did, or whether he just likes to brag about how well endowed he is.

B) Me and intimacy. I am super duper looking forward to getting through the other side of this new relationship/nervousness/learning new things tunnel. I've never been a very open person, nor have I been one for lots of physical contact. I hate getting unexpected hugs, and used to get really irritated when people would casually touch me (even just rubbing shoulders sitting in cinema seats, etc.). I'm getting better at dealing with that sort of thing, but my skin is super sensitive to touch so it's not an easy process. Even now there are very few people I'll let touch me beyond brief hugs/handshakes. Letting my boyfriend hold hands with me is a big step. He seems to really enjoy this casual intimacy so I'm trying really hard to get more used to physical contact. It's been quite a learning curve kissing more and letting him touch me in a sexual way (both because of this point and my earlier one about getting used to his attention being on my body). I find although I'm happy for him to do what he wants within my limits, I'm finding it harder to work out what I'm supposed to do with my hands!

C) I have a tendency to over think things, and I hate change. I go into our dates with massive nerves and sometimes feeling a little ill at the thought of doing new things. I absolutely cannot think of a reason for that stemming from him, although I'd be interested to know if anything in my massive essay jumps out at you guys. I'm fairly certain it just because I've become so comfortable in a certain situation and point of view (not having a boyfriend/physically close relationship), so each step we take further into that is more newness for me. Once I'm there I really enjoy his company, and generally very much enjoy being physical. He;s good at listening to what I want and helping me move into new areas of closeness. On my way home and later that day I'm pretty happy with how things went, but beyond that I seem to latch onto minor details and start to over think things. Little things stick out to me as potentially stress-inducing, so I go through the nervousness leading up to our next date and repeat the cycle. I feel, and hope, that this whole thing will subside as I get more used to the whole relationship deal but in the mean time it's kind of exhausting and has led to me rescheduling/almost rescheduling because I just didn't feel up to dealing with new things that day.
I've explained to him on one occasion that I get a bit scared going into new situations, and also that I'm super introverted and some days I just can't deal with other people. This was especially problematic for a while because I was dealing with a pretty nasty work situation which left me feeling I had no energy to interact with him even though I really wanted to. Now, although he doesn't pressure me about it, he's got the opinion that if I cancel/am nervous it's because I'm afraid. I hope he really understands how my mind works in this way and isn't just humouring me. He has seemed quite hurt on the couple of occasions I have rescheduled, which I understand completely. I'm often just as annoyed not to be seeing him, but I truly think I need to take care of my mental wellbeing and not overload myself if I'm already dealing with other stuff. I keep thinking that's a selfish view to take, but I don't want to let other things have a negative influence on our relationship, and the best way for me to do that is to not see him when I know I'm not in the right headspace to be in the moment and enjoy myself.

Hopefully I'll be seeing him again soon since he's back from holiday and my work situation has calmed down a bit. I have a lot going on in my head about the whole thing, but I'm going to leave it there for today since I genuinely don't know exactly what's in my head let alone how to explain it. I would really like some feedback on dealing with my hesitations with intimacy, negotiating what we do without having a solid reason for wanting a certain progression, and whether there are any other pointers you can give. If you think I'm just thinking too much and you can't see any problems, please say so, I need the reassurance!

Thanks guys

[AvocadoLime]

Some of the things you say he's done would definitely make me feel uncomfortable. 'Getting lost in the moment' and doing things you had already said you weren't comfortable with. Getting annoyed that he 'wasted' a condom because you got interrupted by a security person (would he still feel he 'wasted' a condom and get annoyed if you decided you weren't comfortable and wanted to stop once the condom was already on?) You're putting a ton of effort into doing things that he likes (trying to make yourself more comfortable with physical contact like hand holding) and it seems like you're already doubting what you need and thinking that maybe your needs aren't as important or valid because he has more experience with sexual relationships than you do. It's hard for me to tell from what you've written if him trying to get you to give him oral sex in the car involved any communication (even a 'Oh man I would really like it if you did this right now...does that sound good to you?') or not. For me, I would need communication. I would need a partner not to be annoyed for any reason if we stopped a certain activity. I would definitely definitely need a partner who could manage to respect my boundaries even if they were 'lost in the moment.' Were I in your shoes, I would sit down with him and have a conversation totally outside of the bedroom where I would say something like 'Hey, it made me really uncomfortable when you did things I had previously stated I wasn't comfortable with. I know you said you got lost in the moment, but I need to feel safe that both of our boundaries will be respected, even if we get lost in the moment. How can we make sure that happens?' and see what he says. Then see if he acts on it. I'd do it for everything you mentioned being uncertain about. It doesn't matter if your needs are more exacting and the pace you want to go is slower (they aren't and it isn't) than everybody else in the world. What matters is what you're comfortable with. I would hate for my partner to feel uncomfortable and rushed. The point of being in an intimate (physical) relationship is for it to feel good. Granted I'm not in your shoes, so I have no idea if you feel the way I would feel in the situations you described, but since you're questioning things, I think it makes sense to look at why you're questioning them, and to trust your gut.

[squintern]

Hi Avocado, thanks for the reply It's good to get an outside opinion on things.

Now that I look back on what I wrote and see your responses things are fitting together a bit more than before. I hadn't really made the connection between him pushing boundaries (which wasn't anything major-- he wanted to explore under my shirt with his hands, and I wasn't quite happy with that at the time. Skin-to-skin contact is a big deal for me as you might have gathered) and the condom thing, and you make a good point about whether he'd be annoyed if I stopped it rather than being interrupted (I think he would have been, which I think was part of the reason I didn't say anything at the time but thought back on it with a different opinion). The car incident definitely didn't involve a ton of communication-- he made the leap from me asking him to communicate what he wants to do/wants me to do to basically saying "here's how you give me oral". I will definitely try and have a solid conversation about boundaries and communication next time I see him.

However, I do want to clarify as well that I don't feel like I'm minimising my needs. The way I see it is that I don't know what I like/don't like all that well, so by letting him guide the direction within my limits allows me to get a sense for what he likes and experience different things, at which point I can speak up if that's not what I want. I guess I feel like I don't really know enough right now to be giving him clear instructions about what I want. And as far as feeling comfortable with things, this is why I'm kind of confused-- at the time I don't have any issues, but when I look back on things I sometimes get a bit antsy. I don't really know which feeling I should be trusting.

[Heather]

The way I see it is that I don't know what I like/don't like all that well, so by letting him guide the direction within my limits allows me to get a sense for what he likes and experience different things, at which point I can speak up if that's not what I want. I guess I feel like I don't really know enough right now to be giving him clear instructions about what I want.

I'd suggest rethinking that. After all, setting things up for him to always be the leader and for you to either passively go along or decline isn't a very good framework for a sexual relationship, nor to start your own sexual life with others with.

You can suggest things you'd like to try and see if he would like to, too. You can certainly know what does or doesn't feel good, in any way, and express that when you are then trying those things you have suggested that he also wanted to try.

I think you are much better served to strive for a balance of everyone involved taking turns to initiate and suggest, rather than putting it all in a partner's hands.

You might find a check list like this helps you do that better, and feel more able to do that: Yes, No, Maybe So: A Sexual Inventory Stocklist.

[Kaizen]

I could be speaking to my past self on this one (except my past self didn't have someone focused on emphasizing his penis size, bringing up past times he didn't get to have sex to complain about them, not taking responsibility for doing things after I'd said not to do them, and emphasizing a change in my appearance by saying it distracted him, to name some stuff that worries me here). I did just go along with things because I "didn't know enough to say what I'd like"... and now I feel like I didn't have a part in starting most of the things my boyfriend and I have done.

Please, ask him to talk about what he'd like, specifically, both in terms of you touching him and him touching you. If you think of something you'd like to try (it really helps to get out of the traditional "steps" thinking where the stuff you can do is kissing, manual, oral and intercourse, and there's a definite way to do each. Just tell yourself that anything you think might be fun, whether that's position-wise or talking-wise or anything really, is worth bringing up.) And like Heather said, definitely talk in the midst of doing things about what you're liking or any suggestions you have.

[squintern]

Thanks Heather, that checklist is really helpful. I like that it breaks everything down into tiny individual situations so you can see exactly where your boundaries lie rather than just having big categories of general acts.

Kaizen, it's nice to hear someone else has been in the same boat. For me, I definitely think of things outside the whole "steps" model. The reason I emphasised it so much is because he seems to be very focused on that kind of approach. I have tried explaining to him my view, and he said he understood and agreed, but that's not what comes across in his actions. And as far as the stuff you said worries you, I'd kind of dismissed some of that as him being young and male and eager. The boundaries thing is an obvious issue of course (and hopefully I can make that very clear when I have a good talk to him today), but could you explain a bit more about what's causing you concern about the others? I'm thinking that maybe those issues are showing he's not mature enough to be in a sexual relationship (as much as he obviously wants to be). It seems to me now that you bring it up that he's very focused on the sensationalised aspects of sex like penis size and squirting (until I discussed realistic expectations with him).

[Heather]

Glad it's useful to you! We know sex is way bigger than who puts what part where, so we wanted a list that really addressed the big picture.

You know, if you feel like this person intellectually understands what you need, but isn't yet able to manage that in action, your best bet -- and given some of the other stuff, this might be a smart move anyway -- may be to ask to slow things waaaaaaaaay down so he can have the time to really absorb it and learn some new ways of sexually relating to someone else. It honestly sounds like that's something he probably needs to do for himself in the first place, and it even sounds like he may be at least a little aware of that. After all, he's certainly clear that some of his previous frameworks or approaches haven't left him feeling awesome.

[squintern]

I'm definitely on board with slowing things right down. I told him right from the start I really wanted to take it very slow and just see how we go and how I feel about stuff. It seems like his definition of slow and my definition of slow might be at opposite ends of the universe though :/ I think it comes back to him being 'lost in the moment' and following his body rather than his brain.

[Kaizen]

Have you specified what "slow" means? Even if you don't have an exact idea, I think it would help to put out there something definite you can point to, like, "I do not want to have intercourse until at least three months in; I will tell you if that changes. If you want to do something you consider new, ask first. No going into detail about how much you want to do stuff we aren't doing yet." or whatever matters to you. I think if you give him "guidelines" like that, his reaction and future behavior will show whether he just didn't understand what you meant by "slow" and is willing to work with you, or is actually unable to take your feelings/wants into account.

Since you asked, here's what I thought about those other things.
Penis size: "He seems like he's trying to make this a big deal in an intimidating way." When you said he made a big deal about wasting a condom it added to that.
Intercourse: "He's talking about this a lot for a new relationship, almost like he's trying to be impressive again with how many girls have wanted to have sex with him. Like, none of them thought to come to him, or pick him up? Especially, having just been interrupted at doing something sexual with someone who wants to move slow does not seem like a good time to complain in detail about never getting to have the sex you want."
Makeup: "Should I mention this? I wasn't there, maybe it was okay... I've totally been distracted from sentences because of thinking my boyfriend was cute before." (It happened last night.) "But that's usually just about him being him, not something specific and brand-new. And even if it is about something specific he's wearing I still usually tell him either, 'Sorry, distracted by your cuteness.' or 'Is that a new shirt, it looks really nice on you. You should wear it more.' Neither something that he'd describe as 'I distracted her completely from our conversation by wearing a new shirt.' This seems more like... But I wasn't there... But she does say he was distracted, not that he said he was... Anyway it almost seems like he's trying to influence how she dresses but not make it obvious that's what he's doing. Which seems iffily manipulative."

[squintern]

I think as far as taking it slow, the communication thing is my major goal-- I don't really have a timeline in mind as such, but it would certainly be easier to judge if he'd announce his intentions at the time. I definitely want to make that a major focus talking to him, and make sure he understands that I'm allowed to change my mind in general or part way through.

I'm definitely getting mixed signals from him regarding the whole sex/taking it slow tug-of-war. One minute he says he's totally fine with taking it at my pace, the next he's doing what you described and implying "oh, poor me, look, I've missed out on having sex so much!". I'd dismissed that as general boy-being-boy behaviour, but I am seeing the manipulation/intimidation underneath.
As far as the makeup, we were literally halfway through a conversation (that I was quite passionate about) over dinner, and he suddenly says "can you start again, I didn't hear anything you just said because I'm distracted by how stunning you look". But again with the mixed signals, he's said a few times (because I have been wearing no makeup or very little around him) that I don't need it, that I can rock the natural look, etc.

I had a massive chat to a friend about the whole situation today and I'm going to sit down and have a serious discussion with him about what I'm having problems with, what's been good and what hasn't. There are a few particularly important responses for me, but I'm generally pretty interested to see if he can stay seriousand understand that I'm serious. I'm very much expecting him to either try and distract me (with comments/touch), to brush off my concerns (e.g. "but you're so gorgeous it's hard for me to control myself"), or to humour me then act no differently. We'll see, I suppose. If he isn't mature enough to discuss these things, which are very important to me, I think he's just not in the right headspace for me to be involved with him.

[Heather]

Just as an addition, be sure to remember the idea that sexual coercion or lack of consent is somehow biological, due to someone's sex or gender, is false.

In other words, none of this is because of this person's gender - are guys who do not act like this somehow not guys? - but because of someone's active choices. Young guys are potentially just as capable with this stuff as young women, and their sexual desires are no more unmanageable or difficult to manage than yours based on gender.

[squintern]

Thanks for the reminder Heather, I try really hard not to get trapped by that line of thought but I didn't realise it was rearing its head.

Quick update from today:
- I let him know we needed to have a serious discussion
- he proceeded to try and sweet-talk his way out of it
- he kept checking to make sure 'fun' is still on the agenda when we meet up (verbatim: "ok then miss serious pants. better bring miss fun pants tomorrow though")
- I told him in no uncertain terms that this is a conversation that happens before and separate to any 'fun' that might occur
- he made big assumptions about how I'm feeling and said to trust him
- I explained that I don't like it when he makes assumptions about me, especially not when they're covered up by "trust me" or "relax" (which he's done before)
- he got defensive and said that "I actually do really care about you and that's the only reason I'm still engaged in this", and is totally confused that I've actually raised issues, because he thought we were so chill before

At this point there's too much manipulation/guilt-tripping/avoiding the issue going on. If he can't be serious and mature about the prospect of a full conversation about our relationship, that conversation isn't worth having. As much as I thought we were onto something good and he seemed like a great guy who I got along really well with, I'm ending it before it gets too messy.

Thanks for your help everyone, you helped me see underlying problems I didn't realise were even there and connect the things I was already feeling icky about