uncertainty about my experience and the potential aftereffects

[candikelp]

hi, I'm not totally certain whether all of this is relevant to this board's topic so I apologize if part of it is off topic.

so... when I was around 5 or 6, I had an experience in which an older cousin (about 11 or 12) tried to coerce me into doing something sexual with him. even just recounting it is difficult to do. I know he knows what he was doing wasn't right, because he was lying to me about the specifics of it, and he was around twice my age.

specifically, he asked me to touch him over his clothes in the crotch region, telling me he had a "stick" in his pants. I followed along with it then realized I was touching him, and while I didn't know the specifics of anatomy at that time, I was aware that something wasn't right. I left after that. it wasn't a long or drawn out encounter.

because he never forced anything on me in terms of touching me, I'm uncertain of how to categorize this. it certainly doesn't feel as severe as what some other people have been through, so I hesitate in labeling it as assault.

that cousin is now in prison having been convicted of assaulting a younger sibling of his. this was when I was a teenager, and it caused a lot of upheaval in my family. I also recalled the above event at that time and really thought about what happened then in detail for the first time. before that, I knew it wasn't right, especially after receiving more knowledge from sex ed lessons, but I hadn't actually thought about it or its implications. I don't know more details than that he was charged and convicted and has been in prison for years.

the rest of my family, including another of his younger siblings (aside from the one mentioned before), doesn't believe he actually did anything. they think he's innocent and that it's a misunderstanding. obviously with my experience and other things they told me about his behavior growing up, I do not trust their judgement, and I'm not certain of his innocence at all.

I haven't told them about what happened when I was a kid, and I do not feel comfortable doing so. I don't trust them to handle it well at all - they'll likely excuse it since we were both children or tell me to forgive him (one of my family members is very big on the idea that "forgiveness is the only way to move on") - I know for a fact that I literally just could not forgive him. there's no way. and besides that, I don't like the idea of being seen as damaged by them in that capacity. I already have a very strained relationship with my family, and I don't want the condescension or infantilization that might come with telling them. additionally, this would very possibly make his other sibling (the one he was not convicted of assaulting) upset with me. so in general, doing that would cause me a lot of mental discomfort and put me in a very uncomfortable situation.

aside from being uncertain of whether that incident with me could be considered assault, I also have some other issues that are very likely related.

it seems likely that this was the catalyst for my OCD developing the way it has (my OCD centers around sexual harm and morality for the most part and has been present since I was a kid though it's gotten worse in my 20s). I'm diagnosed with it, and have been going through therapy, and I'm generally pretty aware of what is an intrusive thought and isn't. I have had intrusive thoughts about incest, and they have caused me a lot of distress.

this is where things get more murky:

more recently, I played a game (it's an interactive fiction game, so it's primarily text-based, basically like a CYOA novel but programmed as a game). in it, you can choose for your character to romance various characters - two of whom are either the main character's older half-siblings or cousins (this depends on a character choice at the beginning). there is also the option of it being an adopted relationship, and there are some other details in that specific route that make it so it's perhaps not as severe. but it would still most likely be considered pseudo-incest, and the option for it to not be an adopted relationship is also still present. I opted for the adopted route out of comfort, but I think that only really makes it so much more palatable, of course.

normally, this wouldn't shake me very much. I might be a bit uncomfortable, but I could just stop playing or even engage with the story in the game without freaking out too much.

but it's like something happened in my mind, and now I'm genuinely considering whether I'm more interested in this sort of thing or this scenario. admittedly, it does seem to have some appeal to me in this game. it's definitely not just OCD there.

I generally don't care for it or don't think much of it in fiction (for example Game of Thrones or House of the Dragon which I watched and responded with "hm, okay" and moved on). though I have been worried about it in the kink context before... and not just in an OCD way, I don't think. something about this specific instance has really just seemed to be the straw that broke the camel's back on it actually being real.

I don't like to judge people for kinks or fetishes, even if they're considered taboo. with my OCD, I also feel like I've had so much guilt and shame towards myself that I just don't feel comfortable dishing it out towards others either. besides that, the topic often makes me so uncomfortable that I'd rather just avoid it and move on. so I do.

but now I'm worried I have some actual sort of interest in this, so I can't really ignore it. if it was fictional alone, that would still have me a bit worried because of the moral implications, but I could maybe be okay with it. and even if I wasn't okay with it, I figure I could try to overcome it perhaps. but I'm not certain that this doesn't exceed past that.

I can't say I'm interested in it in a sexual context, but then again, I'm not certain. I know I like dark story elements sometimes, and that already has me a bit antsy (especially in regards to nonconsensual behavior or situations of dubious consent, which I have been drawn to before and elicit similar anxious responses from me...)

and it's entirely possible that after some time I may (hopefully) find it's not as big a deal as I though it was and move on. or that it really is my OCD... but it doesn't really feel like it is (and like I said, I have a pretty good grasp on that usually).

I don't know whether to bring this up to my therapist - I already plan on telling her about the incident from when I was a child at some point because it is relevant to my OCD, but as far as the rest goes, I'm not sure it pertains to that enough for her to be able to do anything about it. she's a therapist specializing in anxiety and OCD, not sex or sexuality or sexual abuse. that and it's incredibly difficult to talk about in such a personal manner. I think maybe I ought to wait until I'm done with my OCD treatment and move onto another therapist who does specialize in this... but I don't know what to do in the meantime.

if it really is a fetish or a kink, then I feel like it's practically a moral imperative to be rid of it. but then I know that's something that a lot of people say isn't actually possible. and that's scary as well. I don't like this idea of having to fight this immoral temptation in my head for the rest of my life. and the fact that I would ever have had it is also upsetting. it really would feel like an emotional stain.

when it comes to my feelings on what happened to me in relation to this... I also feel uncomfortable. I have extremely negative feelings towards my older cousin. I have no empathy or sympathy or care for him, if not for what happened with me then for what happened with his sibling, and I'd love to never see him again (it's likely that I will, unfortunately). I don't like the idea of having been impacted in this way by what happened or that I'm mentally broken or wrong.

there's also the moral implications of this - a lot of survivors (most of whom have faced far worse than me) say they think it's horrible and disgusting and a mockery of what they went through. many don't care that there are therapists who claim it's all right as long as no one's being hurt. it's also just embarrassing - there's a lot of disgust towards people with an interest in incest, fictionally or in kink. it's a lot easier to just go "it's not my thing and I don't get involved in what other people like," but I can't really do that in this situation. so... in general, I'm just concerned over it all.

I do want to clarify that I'm also not trying to seek reassurance as an OCD compulsion. it is somewhat hard to separate shame and guilt from OCD, so I understand if it appears that way. but I don't want to be told that I don't have an interest in it (I mean, I've already established that something about it piqued my interest in that game), and I know that wouldn't work anyway. I'm also not worried about acting on it towards my actual family members - that's where my OCD typically operates, but that's not really what's going on here.

I probably haven't worded this especially well, so I'm sorry if there's confusion or if it's a bit too ramble-y. I just kind of need advice on what I experienced, what to do about all of this, or some info that would be helpful, I suppose. thank you in advance.

[Heather]

Hi there, candikelp. This is absolutely something we can talk about with you here, and I'm glad you felt able to bring it up. I'm also really sorry this happened to you, and really sorry to hear your family has unfortunately handled having a sexual abuser in it the way many families tend to, with a lot of dismissals and denials, instead of with honesty and acceptance of the facts. I'm particularly sorry you have had people you have told dismiss what happened to you. I hope you know that that isn't something anyone here is going to do. Someone trying to sexually assault you is a big deal, tends to have a big impact, and is very real.

You know, I want to tell you something about a sexual assault experience I had that I think it might be helpful for you to hear about, including because I can relate to how you're feeling. I also hope that what I tell you will help you let go of this idea that your trauma is a mockery of what some of us who have survived assault have gone though, because I strongly disagree with you about that, including as a survivor myself.

A content note for you and anyone else reading: I'm going to be talking about some of the details of a gang assault I experienced as a pre-teen.

I was gang assaulted by a few teenage guys when I was 12. I don't remember a whole lot about the assault itself, because from what I do know (and what I don't), it seems very likely I was knocked unconscious for most of it. But based on my body and what was going on with it afterwards, as well as some post-traumatic responses my body had to some things for most of my life, I know some pretty awful and traumatic things happened. What I do remember, though, and what actually has always felt was the most traumatic part of all of it, was what led up to it: the group of them first finding me alone in the room at the community center I was at, how they all eyed me and surrounded me, trying to get me to go with them to a car, the things they said to me about my body in the process, and then how I felt when I ran from them and hid to try and get away from them. I have very strong memories -- and for decades, they really, really messed with me -- of what sitting in that fear and dread of people I knew, in my bones, were dangerous felt like.

I don't think that you have to worry about what happened around that game, and all your feelings around it, being indicative of you having an interest in engaging in incest or anything like that. Feelings stemming from trauma are rarely clear-cut or super obvious, and my guess is that this discomfort and worry is mostly all based it this all stirring up feelings around what happened with your cousin (which, if it helps to have a clinical term for, you could call attempted assault, if you like). I also think that the way OCD works, a propensity for intrusive thought is probably also in the mix with all this, which is why you've gotten yourself into the spot where you are questioning if you have desires around incest when it's pretty clear from where I am sitting that you really don't. If that feels off-base, though, and you are pretty sure there is some fantasy element in all of this, we can certainly talk about that.

I think your plan per what and when you talk with your therapist sounds good, mostly because it sounds liek it's what feels most right for you, which is who it needs to feel right for!

How does all of this feel?

[candikelp]

hi. I haven't actually told anyone outside of confessing it anonymously online in a couple places, so I haven't received dismissive responses at least. I just anticipate that response from my family if I were to tell them. I mostly just feel like that experience wasn't very severe, even if it was definitely not right, because we were both kids, and I've heard of so much worse happening. so I feel like some other people might say things about that.

I do think I probably blew my concern out of proportion, because I'm not as panicked as I was about it last night when I wrote that post. but I do find the dynamics depicted in that game interesting and appealing, so that unnerves me a bit, but you could argue perhaps that it's not in a personal way. I feel that way about problematic things in fiction in general for fear of the ethics of it like I mentioned. but I do think there could be a fantasy element as well, which is the more uncomfortable thing, though I'm not 100% sure.

[Sofi]

Hi candikelp, hope it's okay if I jump in.

You know, with things like assault, it doesn't really matter if others have experienced "worse" because assault is wrong and damaging no matter how "severe". Anyone who invalidates or dismisses your experience because others have "been through worse" is just not understanding the impact any kind of assault can have on people. I think you know this, but I just wanted to make it very clear.

It might be good to sit with this for a couple days (which is not the same as thinking about it for a couple days - if anything, the best thing would be to try to distract your mind from it and not give the thoughts much time or energy). You're feeling a bit more regulated now, and are starting to wonder if you overreacted, but it's still fresh and recent that you panicked about it. As a fellow person with OCD and trauma, when something triggers me like this, I try to move on from the thoughts once I've calmed down, and revisit in a few days to see how I'm feeling about it. Might also be good to not play the game in this time so it doesn't trigger the thought loops again. If you still find it appealing and are maybe fantasizing about it after a break, we can talk about that. Or if you realized it was just intrusive thoughts, we can also talk about that, but it's a different conversation at that point.

How do you feel about that? We can continue to talk, but I just don't want to feed the panic when you're not sure yet how much of it is OCD intrusive thoughts and how much is actual fantasy. Regardless, there's no reason to feel ashamed. What you're going through is common for people in your situation and there's nothing wrong with any of it. <3

[candikelp]

yeah, I do know that. it's just been rough, because I know a lot of people have that kind of attitude, so I guess I internalize that. that and because I haven't spoken to a lot of people about it, I have a hard time gauging whether people would find that "horrible enough" because of certain details, and that makes me doubt the validity of how severe my own reactions or feelings are sometimes.

I do feel much better and more regulated about it now, and I'm a lot less freaked out for sure. I do find it interesting in this specific game, and I may feel a bit guilty for that, but that's not as alarming for me. the game itself doesn't really distress me too much so much as the subject matter and how the interest in it would apply to me on a personal level.

I think the main thing that is most alarming to me is that it starts to have similar/common overlaps with some fantasies of mine that aren't really abnormal or dark at all, but this goes a lot farther into a "darker" and "more problematic" territory obviously. additionally, I have seen people confess or post about dark fantasies like this before that I've had mixed feelings on - and I can't say I was immediately disinterested - which creates some shame for me, so I don't really know what to do about that, I guess.

I can definitely sit with it for a bit though if you think that would help me be in a better place to discuss it, absolutely.

[HannahP]

Hi Candikelp! I think that Heather and Sofi covered the assault and OCD parts of this really well, so I'm going to go in a bit of a different direction.

It sounds to me like you're feeling some shame and guilt about feeling drawn towards fantasies or ideas that you find problematic, even though you know for sure that you have no interest in acting on them in real life. While I can certainly see how your past experiences and OCD are contributing to the intensity of those feelings, we get all kinds of users who come in with the same worries about their fantasies/interests who don't share that background at all. So I think it's also worth addressing that piece of your post independently — and what I would say to anyone who comes here with worries about their fantasies or interests is that it is totally normal and common to think about or feel drawn to or fantasize about all kinds of things that aren't okay in real life. I believe that the most important thing is to check in with yourself about how your thoughts (or in your case, playing the game) make you feel. If it's activating, bringing up memories or feelings in a bad way, or if you always end up feeling really anxious and guilty, that is a good sign that you should probably take a break, because it's not healthy for you. But if your experience is good and feels more curious and exploratory and your negative feelings are more centered on what other people might think, then I think that's just fine — maybe more of a sign that you could practice letting go of the fear of other people's judgments.

What do you think? Is this something that feels healthy for you?