Testing

[sky]

Thank you!! I have made so much progress, thanks for recognizing that

When you ask me that, what would make the life most meaningful for me, it would be a committed monogamous relationship with a woman and WITH sex.

I want to kiss lots of women though, and touch lots of women like feel them up and them do the to me.

I want sex to be special, but it cant be because itll just be too embarrassing to see them after. Its literally just a catch 22. I cannot decide what to do.

I want a relationship with sex. I know that is what I want, but that isnt one the options because sex is way too embarrassing for me.

I can silence myself, i have before but like I cant control my facial expressions I cant even see them in the act. I have masturbated in the mirror so maybe I can keep doing that to learn what feelings cause the faces so I dont do them? The wetness is something I cant control though, sometimes ill go to touch myself down there and its literally beyond wet like I feel shes gonna touch and be like oh youre gross how are you this wet its TOO wet.

Do I make sense?

[sky]

I think i posted a reply and it didnt actually post? Its not showing on my end of waiting to be approved. Damn I took a lot of time writing that too I hope it is there on your end

[Latha]

Hi there, Sky!

I think I can see it in the list of your posts, but it isn't showing up here... how strange!

Is this the post?

Thank you!! I have made so much progress, thanks for recognizing that

When you ask me that, what would make the life most meaningful for me, it would be a committed monogamous relationship with a woman and WITH sex.

I want to kiss lots of women though, and touch lots of women like feel them up and them do the to me.

I want sex to be special, but it cant be because itll just be too embarrassing to see them after. Its literally just a catch 22. I cannot decide what to do.

I want a relationship with sex. I know that is what I want, but that isnt one the options because sex is way too embarrassing for me.

I can silence myself, i have before but like I cant control my facial expressions I cant even see them in the act. I have masturbated in the mirror so maybe I can keep doing that to learn what feelings cause the faces so I dont do them? The wetness is something I cant control though, sometimes ill go to touch myself down there and its literally beyond wet like I feel shes gonna touch and be like oh youre gross how are you this wet its TOO wet.

Do I make sense?

If it is:

You do make sense. I understand how the concept of sex would feel embarrassing, and why you might feel nervous about how another person would react to you/to the way you respond physically.

Let me ask a question: Have you heard people talk about really enjoying sex with another person? In my experience, when people do, they often appreciate their partner's sounds, their facial expressions, and all the different sensations that come with being physical with another person, including being wet. All of these are signs of the pleasure their partner is feeling--something that is usually taken as a compliment. To say this plainly, all the responses you are worried about are things people want to see in their partners.

If I may ask, what has given you the sense that these are a bad thing?

[sky]

Yes that is the one! Thank you!! I talked to a few people and they all said the same thing you did. I just dont understand how im supposed to finish and then hang out. Every situation ive been in i couldnt get dressed fast enough and leave after. Like its just so awkward you saw everything I had to offer basically and saw me do all this weird stuff and we're supposed to cuddle and continue to see each other?

I do like when they make sounds, when I watch/listen to porn i literally only listen if it is like loud orgasm because I just love it. However I dont wanna be perceived as anything. I hate that I have to be a human in general and then we add sex into it and im like.... thats just a lot of people seeing me.

Can yall get that? Or do I just sound absurd?

[Sofi]

Hi sky. I actually do genuinely understand that. Intimacy can be hard because it forces us to have a level of vulnerability sometimes we don’t feel ready for. But that’s the beautiful thing about finding someone we grow feelings for and can slowly build on that to grow intimacy as well, and being vulnerable with them becomes easier as we get to know them and they get to know us.

Which is why I highly suggest you take sex off the table for the first few months of your next relationship. And if you’re thinking “well no one will wanna date me without sex” let me tell you that’s certainly not true. I’ve waited months for people in the past and it was no biggie - when you like someone, actually like them as a person, you’re okay with waiting for sex and focusing on growing that emotional intimacy.

The reason you’re feeling embarrassed after sex is because of how incredibly vulnerable sex is - which is why I don’t suggest having “casual sex”, cause as we explained before, feelings are always going to come up during sex for people. It’s a very intimate experience that requires you to be comfortable with them seeing all of you - noises, faces, all of it.

So working on emotional connection with someone first can make a huge difference in how you feel during and after sex with them. Because if you establish trust outside of sex, if you grow a friendship with this person and can have fun with them, and you know there’s a mutual respect for each other, you’ll be way less uncomfortable with them seeing all of you during sex.

Basically what I’m saying is: sex (and all forms of physical intimacy) and emotional intimacy are closely linked and can’t really be separated. So the question isn’t “should I have a relationship or have sex”, it’s “how do I work on being emotionally vulnerable around someone I like until I’m ready to be physical with them without shame”.

And that’s something we can definitely talk to you more about

[sky]

Im so glad and also sorry that you get what I mean. I hear you. I think i should wait as well, however I don't know how to, I get so caught up in anything like that and become so thoughtless. I feel like if im waiting for a few months im not even gonna be able to makeout in that time because I will just turn it into more.

Also, idk how to grow emotional connection. I cant let people in. My therapist was literally just telling me this week that I run from kindness. I dont know like how to actually let people in emotionally, like I feel so safe in therapy and I spend so long trying to get the courage to say it because I just dont want anyone to like think about me.

I so deeply want a girlfriend and a wife. I wanna share a home and dogs and my life with her. I wanna cook her dinner every night, etc. I have no idea to get there.

Last time I let it down a little bit I got bit in the ass. While it was wonderful while it lasted that crash fucking burned bad.

[sky]

Adding in (i can't edit for some reason) that its gonna take work to be able to get able to accept emotional whatever youre saying and work takes time and I just dont have time. I literally do not have the time to be wasting, thats why I just wanna do sex.

I feel like im so old. Its like everyone my age is jumping off the high dive and im in the kiddie pool with floaties on. Also, I cant even fucking meet people. Everyone who talks to me doesnt want a relationship or does and is poly and im not poly.

[Sofi]

Well, it sounds like you know you struggle with emotional intimacy and are already working through that in therapy, which is wonderful. Relationships aren't always going to work out, and that's the risk we take in exchange for sharing great memories and building a connection with someone we care about. I know the crash can be hard after a breakup, but you don't want to let that stop you from ever pursuing another relationship, you know?

I'm wondering why you feel like you don't have any time, is it simply because of the age thing? To be honest, you'll waste more time fighting against this than just leaning into it and doing the work to become emotionally open to a relationship. I'm so proud of you for how far you've come, and I don't want you to give up now just because it's hard.

I'm leaving here in a bit, and the next person won't be in until tomorrow, so could you try to take tonight off thinking about all this and do something nice for yourself? Even just watching a comfort movie, or singing and dancing in your room (my fave when I need to get my mind off things) <3

[sky]

Ive been thinking. Ive been out all night and i just like, dont understand how you even gain emotional connection to someone you're attracted to without sex.

I feel so ready, I do. I am, i just wanna take it away right after.

And yes, my age. I dont wanna lose my virginity at 40. Like i have tried im just soooo fucked up in my head.

I know I should wait but i just wont be able to once I start to makeout, its a done deal and like I need to kiss the person im dating, if i dont kiss them, its just a friendship for months, and I want a relationship.

Like idk what im supposed to think about because I just want sex. I feel like i wont even be able to cuddle them or anything.

I dont want to give up now either but what the actual fuck. Its been like 6 years ive been on here and I am still here for the same stuff. I just wanna be in love and loved back and have sex

[Latha]

Hi there, Sky

The way you develop an emotional connection to someone is to get to know them. This means taking the time to learn about all the little traits that make someone who they are, being intentional about wanting to build a relationship with them, and giving them your attention. Sex can be a part of this, but it is just one way to be intimate--one that can wait. The right person will give you time until you are ready and support you through any changes, because they would not want you to feel uncertain, scared, or ashamed with them.

You don't have to rush to have sex with another person. There is nothing wrong with not having tried it yet at twenty-eight, and it still wouldn't be strange at forty. But I do want to point out that forty is twelve whole years way. That is a long time! Where you are now is no indication of where you'll be then.

We're here to help, so we don't mind talking to you about the things that bother you--if you are struggling, it is worth it to ask for support, no matter how long it takes. (And I don't even think it is true that you are here for the same things, given that we've talked about how much progress you've made in this very thread.)

Once you rest from your night out, would you try Sofi's suggestion of doing something nice for yourself? Taking a break can make problems easier to work with, and we'll be here to pick this up once you are back.

[sky]

I can take a break for myself later in the week, I have to do doordash and stuff today to make ends meet and then work my regular job for a couple days. Last night was kind of a break, i danced and laughed with my best friend so hard that I almost peed my pants and my cheeks hurt from smiling so much.

But also what is the sex yall are talking about to me? You guys are always saying things about how sex if what you want it to be but then you say sex should wait and like define sex.

Because at this rate I just wanna be strapped by a beautiful woman and that's impossible for me. Sometimes I forget my vagina is broken and then when I remeber its not a good feeling. Then it's a super extra not a good feeling when I realized im making them wait for sex and then we cant even do some of the sex.

At what point am I just a tease? It all moves so fast and its hard to stop it for me because I feel like I have to take advantage of every situation because it never happens to me but when im like.. wait, nevermind am I just a tease? I would feel awful if she was super horny because of me and I wasnt able to have sex. Masturbating is boring and I would feel so upset for her needing too because I wont do it. You know?

In my life there is not one monogamous relationship without sex to look at. I feel so incredibly embarrassed and behind.

These apps suck. No one even talks to me and im shy to talk to women out because they are always with other women and I am like.... what if they are dating one and I hit on her thats mean.

[mikky]

Hey sky, nice to meet you.

I don’t disagree that sometimes the way we talk about sex can be inconsistent or not always match exactly up, but part of that is that there are many of us here, and we all think about sex differently. Latha said sex is one type of intimacy. The night you had with your friend- laughing and dancing- that is intimacy, too (also, sounds like a really amazing time).

Having pain with insertion doesn’t mean your vagina is broken. Our bodies and muscles do the best they can to support us and help us out, and when our brain sends signals that it isn’t safe for the pelvic floor to relax, those muscles are going to be working so hard to keep us protected. Plenty of women have no interest in putting something inside of someone else’s vagina. That doesn’t even mean strapping is impossible- a strap could go between the thighs, in the mouth, hell, in the armpit…

Wanting to develop a sense of trust, comfort, and safety before exploring different types of touch/sex is not being a tease. In fact, that might be something that a woman could really connect with you around. So many of us humans have complicated feelings about sex (our message boards would not be so lively otherwise).

I know apps can suck a LOT. And I am sorry you aren’t seeing other relationships to look at. I know a lot of folks who are in monogamous relationships without sex/ with very little sex for a variety of reasons- it’s new, one or both of the people has trauma they are working through, disabilities and illnesses mean sexual contact is off the table for long periods of time, it’s a long distance relationship… just to name a few.

[sky]

Nice to meet you!

I didnt mean it in a rude way, I just meant like Sofi said wait for sex but what is sex? Like what can I not do? Does that make more sense? Sorry it came off that way.

I hear you, I just feel like those ways of using a strap arent a way to be close to her. I do feel broken for it, I hate it a lot because I want so much sex.

I dont really like know what to do anymore with it. I want a relationship. I want love. It hurts I have never really experienced it. I did for such a short time and she hurt me so bad and I wanna talk to her again just to try again because she was safe and we already have the history.

Sometimes I get so lonely I think about opening myself to men and that is just terrible for me and I hate that im that lonely at times it even comes to mind

[Heather]

Hey there, Sky.

So, the answer to *which* sex needs to be off the table is really going to be up to you, and be based on which kinds of sex feel activating for you. In your case, and specifically around what you have been talking about here, I'd say that's whatever kinds of sex or sexual situations make you feel like you need to run away before, during or after. In other words, whatever kinds of sex -- or sexual situations, after all, you may find that things don't feel the same with everyone -- you aren't comfortable with, at least to the point that you can be part of them and feel comfortable sticking around after, those are the kinds to hold off on with people until you have built some comfort and trust with them (and yourself, and in the relationship) and feel different.

I'm not sure who you are talking about who hurt you so badly. Are you talking about the woman you saw for a little while where you two weren't really connecting and you both kind of let it fizzle out, or someone else? Fill us in?

I do want to say something about this for you:

At what point am I just a tease? It all moves so fast and its hard to stop it for me because I feel like I have to take advantage of every situation because it never happens to me but when im like.. wait, nevermind am I just a tease? I would feel awful if she was super horny because of me and I wasnt able to have sex. Masturbating is boring and I would feel so upset for her needing too because I wont do it. You know?

There's no such thing as this, as being a "tease." That's a vestige of sexism, based on the antiquated idea that if a woman, specifically, arouses a man's sexual attention in any way -- including when we didn't even intend to, when she was just existing in his vicinity -- but isn't sexual with him, she is teasing him. It was and still is a gross framework that has no place in healthy and humane sexual frameworks. Not everyone finds masturbation boring, in fact, most people don't. So, if and when someone gets turned on by you and you don't want to do sexual things they want, or sexual things at all, people have three essential options: they can just accept that and let it go. After all, being turned on goes away if we let it. They can masturbate. Or, if they have other partners, now or in the future, they can see if other people want to do the things they want to do. But no one owes anyone sex, ever, and you just don't have to worry about this. It's a relic from an antiquated heterosexual power imbalance, and it isn't anything anyone needs to have anything to do with in 2025. <3

[sky]

Im talking about the one who i went on a few dates with, told such deep rooted issues with my sexuality and my family life to, and kissed, a lot, it was such a romantic night for me but she never made time for me and then screamed at me that everything is about me and im self centered and negative about my chronic pain and mental illness.

All sex and sexual stuff makes me uncomfortable. I literally dont want to be perceived that way at all. I hate that I already am because im an adult and then in the future when im out with my girlfriend and we hold hands people are going to know I have licked her genitals and I hate that. To me, its weird and gross that sex even exists so openly like it runs the whole world and everyone is seen as a sexual being. I wanna exist invisibly. But have lots of sex. So I dont fucking know anymore. I just feel like an idiot.

[Heather]

I don't remember you telling me they screamed at you, my apologies if you did and I didn't remember. I do remember you telling me that it wasn't a big deal that you two didn't continue your relationship and that you weren't sure you were attracted to her anyway. If that's something you said to protect yourself or downplay your hurt, then I think moving forward it will be really helpful if you try not to do that. That way, we can talk about your actual feelings when you are having them. <3

You're not an idiot, you're someone with some very complicated feelings about sex and sexuality, including from a life history that put some of them there. I do think you might want to know that I think the average person doesn't look at a couple and sexualize them in the way you're thinking, and even if and when someone is, we can't stop them from doing that, and they also very well might do that when we're holding hands with a friend we've never been sexual with in our lives. We just can't control what other people think and it seems a shame to let that get in the way of you seeking out the relationships you want, you know?

So, if what you're saying here, that ANYTHING that can be sexual makes you uncomfortable, then the answer to you asking what sex it's being suggested you keep off the table at first is is anything you think is sexual, then. You're going to say that sucks, probably, because of course, if you want to be sexual, and have wanted to for a long time, that does suck. But if and when you're in this kind of spot, where anything and everything makes you uncomfortable, then this is one of those things that's an indication to keep working with the therapists you are, because those will be the best people to work with you on this. Are you still seeing the sex therapist you started seeing?

[sky]

I acted like it wasnt a big deal because I didnt wanna be affected. When she messaged me a couple months after to apologize I was just like I haven't been thinking about you type thing. I still think about her. I just am not gonna put up with yelling at me. Yelling to me if you had a shit day at work or something is one thing, everyone needs to yell about a bad coworker etc sometimes, thats not what im talking about, im talking about being mad at me and yelling at me. I am not doing that.

No, I stopped seeing that one in like January. Ive been seeing the same one since april though, shes a young lesbian who just got her license and is taking a gap year before going back to become a sex therapist. She loves to talk about the stuff im struggling with, thats what her goal is in her career. I talk, then she asks questions and i don't know, thats my answer, I just dont know... thats why im there talking to you about it... like? If i knew I wouldn't be here wanting to work on it lol.

I just say I dont know and then get so annoyed that I dont know how to explain how i feel and then shut down or deflect. Im a professional deflecter.

Even under the influence I still cant get myself to have sex that makes me hate myself a lot lol. I tried to so much when I drank and it never happened and now im sober and smoke very rarely and when I do I still dont flirt or make moves on someone or have sex. Im so stressed that im literally running out of time. I don't know what else to try to just have sex. Its so consuming because im just so constantly horny and SO FUCKING LONELYYYYYYYYYYY. Its like theres a hole in my whole chest, every. Single. Day. Its exhausting. Im so tired of being alone.

[sky]

Adding that i am on the apps, literally all of them. People dont really even send me likes lol. I dont know how to talk to people in person, if I do i get friend zoned literally every time.

Genuinely I wish you guys could understand that it is sex or im alone forever.

Do I need therapy for help hooking up? What do I say? I financially cant go for awhile but when I do, I have no idea what the hell to say to make it possible to work it out.

When i say sex I mean for me thats once we are naked and acting sexually. Like if we dry hump with clothes on, its not sex but if we do naked then its sex. That's how I view sex for me personally. However I don't know any adults dry humping so that was a bad example but you get the point of what I mean.

[Heather]

Genuinely I wish you guys could understand that it is sex or im alone forever.

I'm not entirely sure of what this means, but I want to let you know that everyone here knows and accepts that you get to make these choices for yourself, and that no one here is any more invested than you are in what specific kinds of relationships or interactions you have, save that we hope whatever they are, from now through your life, they feel right and good for you. No one here is trying to talk you out of casual sex or into something else. All we're trying to do is help you based on what you're telling us you want or need, and what you're telling us your limitations are.

I'm really sorry to hear that that person yelled at you. That's obviously not something we want for you or for anyone. I'm also sorry to hear that your therapy interactions right now don't feel useful. (My best advice is to share that with the therapist, after all, it is her job to do what she can to make therapy useful for her patients/clients. You can say something like, "I feel like this hasn't been helpful for me so far. Can we try a different approach?")

Let's talk about the apps when we talk tomorrow: I had already had some thoughts and ideas about them when it comes to you I wanted to share.

But given what you have posted here, I want to just offer a few things today:

Often, when we feel very lonely, interactions or relationships that are only sexual can feel good at the time, but leave us feeling lonelier after. Even if we come to those interactions with a sex-only mindset and make that clear to the other person, it can be so easy afterwards to still wonder why that person doesn't want more from us, and to feel rejected emotionally. I worry about that with you and sexual interactions.

That said, sometimes the only way for us to figure out what's right for us to do, especially if we have spent a very long time, as you have, thinking and talking it all through, is to do things and see how they feel. So, if you think that being sexual and pursuing something that is mostly or only sexual, or that is sexual and one-time, is the way to go for you, then you can seek that out and, if the opportunity presents itself, try that and see how it feels. You can also ask a therapist for help with things like how to get over shyness or nervousness approaching people, if that feels like practical help you need, but I suspect that at this point it's more a matter of you just putting yourself out there and pushing yourself to talk to people you feel attracted to.

I do want to remind you, as someone who has been a sex educator and scholar for as long as you've been alive, that there is literally nothing sexual that many adults don't do. Do adults dry hump? They sure do: sometimes that will be something people do before they have ever been naked together, sometimes it will be something people do after they have been together for years and done just about anything under the sun you can dream of. What adults in sexually satisfying relationships tend to do is mix it up, doing a wide range of things from day to day or month to month or year to year. What people in sexually satisfying relationships do NOT generally do is the same thing over and over again or focus only on intercourse, oral sex and manual sex, the things sexual media -- porn and otherwise -- tends to mostly focus on. So, you'd do yourself a real favor, I think, to work, as we have talked about before, at letting go of your ideas of what people who actually enjoy sex together do and don't do in sexual relationships, because they're just not based in reality. In reality, things are a lot more varied and a lot less limited and a lot more flexible than you tend to imagine.

[sky]

I know yall are trying to help, i do and im super thankful. However, I feel super pressured to wait from everyone here and I cant wait and I need help on how to move forward.

[Heather]

Morning, Sky.

I'd like to ask you to go back and take some time to reread my last response to you.

I think I was clear about how what we have been doing is responding to what you are telling us *you* want or need for yourself, and limits you have been saying you want, and that if what you want to do is to be sexual with people, then by all means, we support you in choosing to do that. We've had this conversation before, too, quite a few times over the years.

No one here is pressuring you to do anything or telling you what to do and what not to do save to try and affirm what you are telling us you want or need, so I'm not sure what the origin of that feeling is, but I don't think it is actually coming from here.

What kind of help would you like us to offer you?

[sky]

Sofi said she thinks that i should take sex off the table and maille said that sex is sacred for me and let it be.

Idk how else to take those then not have sex for sex. I fully know im gonna be sad after especially if they wont see me again but I want the experience so I know how to have sex and can say that I have had sex.

[Heather]

IMHO, I think you are oversimplifying both of their responses, and also perhaps forgetting that they were in response to things *you* said about what you want and don't want, or are and are not comfortable with.

But I've also just dropped you an email to address where this thread has gone since you first asked about posting here again about the initial topics you posted about, and how it's gone to places/subject areas that, over the years, we have agreed don't work out for you through our direct services. Before any more posting here, let's address that in email, please. Thanks.