I'm scared my friend and I will become bullies

[shark_hyazinthe]

I’ve been struggling with something lately, and I’m not sure how to handle it, so I’m hoping someone out there has some advice.
I used to be in a friend group of three. Things were okay at first, but one of them had some serious mental health issues, and me and my other friend just couldn’t keep up anymore (we have our own problems too, but not like on their level). We tried, but it was really exhausting, so we ended up distancing ourselves from them.
The problem now is that the friend I’m still close with has started being pretty disrespectful toward them. And the thing that freaks me out is, that I kind of relate to the friend who’s doing the bullying. We’ve both been through a lot of bullying in the past, and sometimes we talk about how “some people deserve it” and I sometimes agree with her. It feels messed up, but I don’t know how to stop thinking like that.
What really scares me is that there’s someone I’ve probably bullied before, and the worst part is that I don’t feel bad about it. At all. And that makes me wonder if I’m turning into the kind of person who made my life hell when I was younger.
I don't want to be a bad person, but it feels like I'm so easily irritated now, and everyone is bothering me.

[lilikoi]

Hi shark_hyazinthe!

Sounds like a stressful situation for all of you! I admire your self-awareness on this topic. I have to say that I disagree with the idea that some people deserve bullying. Could we explore your thoughts on that more? I think of bullying as an indirect confrontation with somebody. Instead of trying to discuss the issues or set a boundary, bullying means that people are trying to manage their feelings by making someone else feel bad. One of the issues with that approach is that it creates more issues for everyone involved.

It sounds like you and your close friend might have some resentment towards the third person yall have distanced yourself from. What would you and your friend be trying to accomplish by bullying the third person? Is that justification the reason why you don't feel bad for bullying in the past? Is there another option we could think of to accomplish your goal?

[shark_hyazinthe]

Well, with our ex-friend it's actually just my friend trying to bully them, and I've told her that she shouldn't be mean to them. But I get that she wants to accomplish that they don't cling to us anymore. Especially my friendship with them caused me to have a lot of problems, including SH and a depressive episode, and as soon as we stopped being friends with them, I suddenly got better. So my friend is just trying to keep them away, even if I think she is using the wrong method. (btw I'm also in therapy now, so at least one problem solved)

For the other girl I've bullied, I was extremely frustrated with her. I know no one deserves bullying, and morally I'm 100% against it. I just can't help it sometimes. At one point everything about her was pissing me off, from her voice, to her face etc. Just when I saw her, I had intrusive thoughts of doing really mean things to her, and that scared me. And I guess I was also just trying to keep her away from me, so she'd leave me alone. She was really clingy, since she wanted to be friend with me.

[Heather]

Hi there.

Am I right in understanding that neither you nor your ex-friend tried just speaking to these people directly? In other words, did your ex-friend try telling the people she felt were too attached to her that she didn't want to spend time with them anymore? How about you: did you try telling this person who wanted to be friends with you that you weren't interested directly?

[shark_hyazinthe]

Yeah, we did. We told her clearly (and friendly), that we can't help them alone anymore, and we don't feel comfortable in the situation anymore. And then they started to threaten us, so we just started slowly having less contact to them. We didn't ghost them or anything. I'm not the one trying to bully them, I'm just sick of protecting them from bullies. And for the other girl, I told her eventually that I did everything because of some stupid stuff she did to me before, and she understood.

[Heather]

Okay, so it sounds like you both do know how to deal with conflict like this without bullying and that you have. That also tells me that bullying isn't something you can't help, like you said, but that you have the ability to make different choices than bullying.

I get that having hard feelings, including fantasies of being mean, can feel scary and even shake your confidence in your ability to act otherwise, but I don't think those feelings can make you do anything you don't want to do or that isn't right to do. It sounds to me like you have the ability to control yourself in that way.

It sounds like what might be left to do here is to stop participating in talk of bullying -- or saying things like that some people deserve abuse -- with that one friend. That's something where you hopefully just need to set some boundaries, maybe just by saying, if and when they start talking that way, that you don't want to talk about bullying or maybe even talk too much about people you both don't like anymore.

If you also have bullied someone in the past, you might need to just forgive yourself for that. So long as you're doing what you can not to bully anyone again, unless you think or feel that person might be open to some amends from you, all you really can do from here on out is do better than you did, you know?

[shark_hyazinthe]

I've tried to tell her. I'm really trying to do everything right. Maybe it didn't come over clearly, but the thing that is scaring me is that I already forgave myself, because I never felt bad about having bullied her. That is what is scaring me. But I think that might actually be a topic for my therapist lol, I'm just scared to actually talk about it.

Also thanks for the advice <3 I completely forgot to say that before, I was rambling (:

[Heather]

Of course, we're glad to help.

So, you've tried to set boundaries with this friend, but the friend isn't respecting them?

You know, I'd say that the fear you are feeling probably has a lot to do with feeling bad about your past behavior, it just is maybe manifesting differently than feeling bad has for you before. But by all means, this sounds like something great to talk with a therapist about. What do you think makes bringing it up with them feel scarier than bringing it up here did?

[shark_hyazinthe]

I just think seeing them face to face. And sometimes I feel so pressurised talking to them that I start making stuff up, and that's bad obviously. I guess it's just easier to be honest with myself when I can write my response. But idk
And about my other friendship, I've been struggling with our relationship too recently. I don't really want to call her toxic, because I really get were her actions are comming from, but I know she probably isn't the best Person for me to be around. We just kind of fuel each other with hate, if that makes sense...

[Heather]

I understand. Something you can sometimes due when in that kind of a situation with a therapist is to ask if you can text or email them what you want to talk about or, if they can't do that (usually because of patient privacy concerns), you can go ahead and write and print it out ahead of time and give it to them when you go in. It can kind of break the ice for you, and take care of the first hardest part, if you know what I mean.

I also understand what you mean about your dynamic with your friend. And if she talks about doing people harm sometimes, it's probably hard to feel exactly safe trying to really hold your lines or even ask for some space. Is this someone you could just quietly spend less time with for now?

I also want to echo what lilikoi said to you earlier, by the way: your honesty and self-awareness are really something. I hope you give yourself props for both sometimes!

[shark_hyazinthe]

Thanks a lot <3
As for my friend, I just feel sorry for her I guess. We're both trying to make new friends in our class, and I'm kind of ahead of her, because I'm actually not that bad in 'normal' social settings. She has some trouble talking to others without seeming annoying, so I feel kinda bad for her. She told me that she's happy for me that I'm starting to make new friends, but I could really tell that she's feeling jealous.

[Heather]

Would you rather try and talk out the toxicity with her? I think that will also mean really setting some hard lines and letting her know you need her to abide by them, too. Does that seem like something she might have the capacity for?

I want to add: if it's ONLY for her and out of pity you want to be friends, but your gut is telling you she isn't good for you, we should probably talk about some other alternatives.