Am i the problemmm???

[Wanjiee]

I'm going to begin by saying, "we listen we don't judge" because I've been here a lott. I think I'm fucking this up, and i think I've been fucking up my relationships because of me not having had sex. So today i told this guy that I'd like our first time sex whatever to be on valentines day. He asked me why but I wasn't expecting that. I honestly did not have an answer so i just thought fast and said idk i think it's cute, it'll be such a cute story. But the way i delivered it wasn't so good, i kept stuttering, and talking slowly, moreso because I'm not used to having such kinds of conversations but heavens know i was trying. Manz got so mad at me, sooo maaaad and he ended up wanting to have a conversation with me. He asked why i thought he was mad, i gave him my answers but they weren't enough for him, he told me i wasn't thinking hard enough. When i covered my face because i felt like it's a little too much he told me that I am acting like a child it'd be cute when i was like 16 but fight now it isn't. So then i explained that i am a little nervous (didn't mention it was my first time, I didn't want to) just told him I'm a little nervous I'm just buying myself a little more time (like 7days) he told me that it doesn't make sense to him that it's a me problem he's not a psychiatrist to help me remove whats in my mind yk, and yeah i felt shitty af, and idk he's got me thinking for a moment that i am the problem, that I don't know how to handle issues like an adult and i feel shitty about myself rn.. p.s I'm 22 he's 25

[KierC]

Hi Wanjiee, it’s always so great to have you here! I’m glad to see you again, but I’m so sorry it’s under times of stress. None of us here will EVER judge you about what you’re going through, I promise. We listen and we don’t judge! <3

First and very important: You are not fucking this up. You not having had sex before is not a bad thing, and it’s not your fault that these guys haven’t been responding to your nervousness with the care and attention you deserve. In this situation and in ones you’ve had before, it sounds like these guys have acted like real jerks toward you, and that’s not on you at all.

I’m noticing that you’re treating yourself like you’re the problem and that how you’re acting isn’t okay. I want to gently remind you that nothing of what you’ve described doing or saying sounds wrong, bad, or harmful to others. It’s perfectly okay to (1) be nervous about having sex for the first time; (2) express that you’re nervous; and (3) speak slowly, stutter, or take time to respond to questions about being nervous.

The way this guy responded to you being nervous (to tell you to “think harder,” that he’s not a psychiatrist) is mean, aggressive, and belittling. I’m so sorry that he responded to you like this, and I’m so sorry to hear you were in this situation where you felt overwhelmed and scared. Just so you know, too, covering your face because you’re overwhelmed is not childish or “cute” like he’s suggested. It’s a self-protective instinct that nobody should judge you for, and it’s not supposed to be “cute,” it’s a sign that you’re scared or overwhelmed.

How are you feeling after that encounter, and where do you stand with this guy currently?

Too, how have you been feeling with anxiety, either about your first time having sex or generally?

[KierC]

I also wanted to add that when you feel nervous, it’s important to be curious about that nervousness and what it’s telling you. I think in this situation and in others, the nervousness and uncertainty you’re feeling is your gut telling you no about this person. It’s important to trust yourself when you feel that way. <3

How does hearing that make you feel?

[Wanjiee]

Thank you for this. I had really thought hard, soo hard whether I said, or did the wrong thing. Yoh, and I keep wondering why he reacted like that, considering the fact that he has said countless times that he's a man, so i thought he was going to be understanding and so on, but noo.. and the part where it pissed me off was after all that 'adult conversation' of his, he looked me in the eye and told me, "you see even when you make me so mad I'm a good person, i made you food, I'm going to walk you to the bus stop, you see..." No mister, i can't see I'm blind. I felt so belittled and disrespected yk. And he kept saying that i should sit and decide how we'll move forward with this sex thingy, and i wondered whether he was listening at all to the valentines thingy i said!! I feel so hurt I don't like this at all. Should i tell him he was mean and stuff?

[Wanjiee]

Well, about my first time, I've been feeling pretty excited but also a little nervous. I feel ready, i feel like my body is ready so there's that, at least even trying it out this time, i feel quite confident about it.
Now about this guy, honestly I'm not so sure. Coz he's been so good to me, he even asked me to be his girlfriend, now this side of him is new, like very new and I'm so confused omgg

[Tara]

Wanjiee, I am so sorry that you have experienced this with someone you thought you could trust and were ready to move forward with. From what you have described of the situation and his reactions + how it made you feel, I feel so disappointed that this person disrespected you in this way and let you down. You said he was trying to be the "more grown person" and "a man" but I agree with you that this was not adult/respectful behavior and it seems that he was acting out in a childish way. I agree with Kier that to the extent that this person behaved and acted negatively towards you and how it made you feel prompts deeper reflection into whether this person can be trusted with your feelings.

You are asking if you should tell him how you are feeling or call him out on his behavior. I don't think it would be bad to honestly tell him how you were feeling about all of this, but maybe first figure out if this is the person you really want to be around or have sex with. I fear that moving forward with anything more serious might put you at risk for further hurt feelings. Do you think you should take some time to think about this before reaching out to him?

[Wanjiee]

New day, same shitty feeling.
I feel like crying right now. So, I sent him a vn. And in the vn i said that i get that i annoyed him with how i delivered the message and the message itself. Explained that sometimes i get clumsy with words when I'm nervous. Told him that I'm going to try to express myself clearly, and then i also told him that he was mean to me i didn't appreciate that, i just basically let it all outtt at midnight, didn't want to wake up with a heavy heart. So he listened to it and responded saying, "sighhhh" then told me that he needs some time to sit with his thoughts. Part of me feels like he's thinking maybe I'm not 'adult' enough for him. Another part of me just keeps wondering why he's this annoyed with me, and idk I'm just not having a good day at all. I'm so sad, I'm going to cry, idk

[Latha]

Hi there, Wanjiee

Wow, this man is really so rude. He wants time to sit with his thoughts now, but he couldn't give that to you when you were having trouble explaining your feelings earlier.

You know, you don't need to never feel nervous or unsure to be a mature adult, but you do need to be able to hold space for other people and get along with them. Those are skills he isn't using at all, while you've been more considerate than he deserves through everything that has happened. You don't need to sit and wait on his evaluation of you. If he is annoyed and thinking that you are not adult enough for him, he has no idea what he is talking about.

I am so sorry to hear that this man's disrespect has left you feeling this awful about yourself. I agree with everything Kier and Tara have said. If anyone came here describing a partner like him, we would tell them the same things we've told you. You are not the problem. You've just learnt that this guy is a jerk. At this point, I can't imagine that there is anything he could say that could make up for the way he has acted--the disrespect he has shown you over what should have been a very simple conversation.

I understand this had been a trying day. What would you like to do now? What kinds of self care would help you feel better?

[Wanjiee]

Hiii, thank you so much. I have calmed down a bit, drank some water, talked to my friends, Honestly i feel much better. I've stopped blaming myself, and I've thought to myself that I should just let him be, I'll stand my ground, I don't think I deserve such disrespect. Thank you all for the advice

[Wanjiee]

Update: He broke up with me.
I've cried for the past two hours because not even i saw this coming. He talked to me and explained his context which is that his ex fucked around with his mind so much, they used to solve their issues by either avoiding it, or having sex, and this little argument we had has spiked up some resentment and hurt feelings frm the past which he said he must deal with, he doesn't know how long it will take but he doesn't want to keep me in waiting so this is more of a breakup. He apologized for the hurt, apologized for the pain he's caused me but he said he doesn't want to make this a me problem, he just wants to deal with it.

I am not going to lie, i felt so hurt, like this is so unfair, why does this always have to happen to me, like oh dear lord, please i don't want to go down this road again, where i miss him, i want to talk to him, there's nothing I can do because he's broken up with me. I'm so hurt, I've spent the past few hours crying and now idk what next, idk what to do, idk where to go, i wish it was to his place though. I honestly feel like we could work this out if he was willing to, but idk. I really need help

[Heather]

It’s good to see you again, Wanjiee, but I am so sorry that another crummy man you mistook for someone decent is why.

I think this keeps happening because I think the men you keep getting involved with are jerks, and for any number of reasons, you aren’t seeing that they are before you get very attached to and deeply involved with them. The fact is, none of the ways you have reported boyfriends acting here in your history of the boards are ways actually decent people who are caring, respectful and earnestly invested in their relationships with you would behave. I hate that you got hurt again, but I also think this would not have led to anything good, so I think it’s good you are not going to be with him anymore.

Because you’re grieving this very fresh ending right now, it probably doesn’t feel like the right time to talk about who you choose to get involved with and how, but I think that is the next conversation we should have to try and change these awful patterns and turn things around for you.

How about we put a pin in that until after you have had some time to mourn this?

[Wanjiee]

Hey, okay lemme give me some time to mourn this then we'll have that conversation next. Thank youu!!

[Heather]

For sure. No matter what, you are having big feelings and need to spend what time you need processing them. Trying to push ahead without giving yourself whatever time and space you need for that is never a good idea.

Again, I'm so sorry this happened to you again, Wanjiee. It's long been clear you're a lovely person who doesn't deserve any of this, and we all hate seeing these guys treating you so poorly.

[Wanjiee]

Hey, i cried it all last night and i think I've done today much much better than i expected. I talked, i laughed, i cried a little in the morning, went outside, listened to some music, even worked out for a few minutes, and I didn't text him. I kept checking whether he viewed my stories (which he did) just that.
Anyway, I cannot begin to explain how much I like this guy, so much I was willing to try and solve this. If there's any way we could solve this yk. Coz when he asked for a breakup, basically he said that he doesn't want to hate me or resent me because of the hurt his ex caused him. In that time, I wanted to tell him I'm not his ex, we can definitely try and work our way way through misunderstandings and so on, we'd face them instead of avoiding them or solving them with sex as he said. He told me that I'm such a good person, I don't believe that. I don't believe that I'm a good person, some part of me feels like i pushed him to make that decision. And uum yeah, what else can I say, what else can I do that I haven't done yeah? I'm sad that this has ended all so soon it wasn't supposed to end that soon yk? This guy has been amazing since the very beginning, it's this misunderstanding we had that caused all this. This is the time he'd normally call, and God knows how much I'm holding myself back from calling him
If I'm being honest i want this to work, i want to talk, i just want us to at least try yk, people try, people grow together. In an atempt to stop with the doomscrolling i uninstalled ig and substack and whatsapp and yeah. Soo idk, i just miss him now

[Heather]

I'm glad you have taken some time and space to just feel your feelings.

Personally, my gut feelings say -- and I'm sorry, I know this won't feel good to hear -- that what he said to you about his ex sounds a little like bullshit to me. I'm just not buying it. It sounds like the kind of thing someone says when they just want someone to move on and when they don't want to have to actually deal with that person's feelings or take account for their own behavior. I would strongly suggest you continue to mourn this and work towards letting it go. I would not advise trying to stay in relationship with this person. I think if you did, you'd only discover that he will continue to treat you the way he has recently, and would only invest more time and energy into something that is not at all likely to be good for you.

I also have reread everything you have posted about him, and I have to disagree: he doesn't sound amazing. I see him having treated you very poorly. I don't see a misunderstanding in what you are describing, I see someone who can't seem to control their anger, who is getting angry at you simply for having feelings and someone who you haven't even felt safe enough with to be honest with about your potential sexual first time being a first time. Can you look back at what you've posted here about him and tell me how you're seeing all of this behavior as being amazing and not awful? What I am seeing, which I have also seen with you in your intimate relationships in the past, looks like you not being able to see when something is actually good and when it's actually quite bad.

[Wanjiee]

You knoww, people keep saying that. My brother told me that's such a weird excuse to give somebody, my cousin just rolled her eyes because she thought that I'd give her a jaw dropping reason and i just keep wondering how and why I'm the only one who felt that, you know? Because I've been thinking why would a guy end things over something as little as that. Like I don't think it was something big to even trigger whatever feelings he said were triggered about his ex, it's not like anybody was caught cheating, This was actually our first 'fight'. I've read things he's written on substack before, talking about some, "he's sabotaged relationships before because he's sort of a coward, and other things that I don't remember, and apparently he still is a coward to fuck up a chance with a sweetheart who also happens to be a scientist, like what a combo.
Uum anyway, idk what to do at the moment.
I've said he wasn't awful because we've had conversations in the past, everything was moving smoothly, we laughed, we talked, we communicated, we went out on dates, i met his friends, idk i just had a good time before this anger thingy happened, i was having the time of my life. About my potential first time being my first time, idk why i never said it. Also the last sentence is quite true

[Heather]

Before I say more, can you tell me how long you two had been dating before this? And maybe a bit about how the relationship started? Where did you meet him? Who asked who out? How did you two decide to pursue a romantic and sexual relationship, and what conversations did you have about that?

[Wanjiee]

Met at a writers event in September last year, we didn't talk for a while he approached me to co author a post with him, and we started talking from that time, slowly by slowly, he asked for my number and soon after a couple of stories, he told me that he liked me. Of course i liked him as well. Wait, at first i asked whether he liked me, and he said that he liked talking to me then a couple weeks later he said that he liked me.
After that he started talking about potential first dates and i was like uuh cool, so he asked me out on a date, and we spent the whole day together, we talked. I asked him, "what are your intentions with me" he told me to get to know me, to hang out. He's not the kind to throw i love yous aimlessly at a girl and he's also the kind where we see where this goes so we ease into it. He then said that he's committed in that he's not flirting or entertaining other babes so yup.
He invited me to his place about last month, i went to see the place, met his friend, invited me again i went, sooo I asked him like all girls do, "do you like me?" He said a lot. And then i said enough for me to start referring to you as my man?" He said yeah, then i told him that that would mean I'm his girl right, he said yeah, i told him he's supposed to ask,this isn't like a guessing game and so on, he said he was going to ask when it felt right, then a couple of hours later he popped the question. Then i was like aaww yes, then he kept telling his friends that he has a girlfriend, he's so happy. Please don't tell me he was faking that. This was like 3weeks ago, so uum yeah.

[Heather]

Thanks for filling me in.

I can't say what was real for him and what wasn't, unfortunately. But I can say that this all sounds pretty new -- am I getting it right that this has only moved past very casual dating in the last month or two? -- and that it's normal for just about any new relationship to seem great in the first few months. In the first few months of knowing each other, people will generally only be showing their best behavior, their best selves, and it's less common for people to experience conflict because we just don't know each other well enough, or have a relationship that's gotten deep enough, for much of that. (Mind, sometimes we just don't get on with anyone from very early on, but I'm not talking about that kind of situation.)

Once we're past the first few months with someone, that's usually when we start seeing more of each other's true colors. That's when things that aren't right between us will tend to start showing up; when conflict will start to brew if there is any. That's when people usually start to stop being on their best behavior, and when we start to be able to really get a better sense of who someone is. That's also why it's generally not advised for people to make big commitments or get serious about each other in the first six months or so of a relationship, or to base their idea of someone and their relationship on those earliest interactions. It's also generally a red flag when someone is talking about commitment too early: saying you're going to be exclusive with someone on a first date, for instance, isn't actually a good sign, it's more of a warning signal. When people make commitments too fast, it's also not surprising when they want to roll them back or split just as fast: commitment should be something we really take our time thinking about and crafting over time, not something we offer or agree to quickly.

So, it is sounding like what you have recently been shown has been more of his more authentic behavior. I'd figure that what he's more recently shown you with his behavior is more representative of who he is than what you experienced at first, I'm afraid.

(I have to run out to an appointment, but I'll be back in an hour or so and can keep talking with you about this today if you'd like.)

[Wanjiee]

I'd really love to continue talking with you about this today when you're done with your appointment.

Yes you're getting it right, I'd say we've been boyfriend girlfriend for a month snd we've been like casually dating for two months. Now considering the people I've been with in the past (which you know of, I'm always here venting) i sort of thought that he knew what he wanted and that was a great sign, a very amazing one i was so happy, like even when he introduced me to everbody (seriously i had no idea this was a thing, i was shook when he said he'd like to meet my friends at some point too.) now part of me thinks he was being very genuine, but then this little argument has got me wondering whether this is how problems are solved like this in relationships. And to tell me about his ex even had me more shook because whaaattttt??
Oh and while on that note i think i should mention that after he said the break thingy, i called him back and he told me that he hopes i don't see him as a bad guy, he hopes i can forgive him for causing him pain, he added that this isn't in any way a manipulative tactic or something like that. And i was just like, "this is not okay, this is not fair" because it isn't.

[Heather]

I got here a little early, so thanks to my phone, I can pitch in a little more while I wait. Pardon any brevity in my reply due to being on a phone.

Yet again, he sounds like someone who doesn’t actually care about your feelings. You’re hurting from his actions, and what he appears to care about most is what you think about him, and trying to get you to reassure him he’s a good guy when he hasn’t been one. That’s him centering himself. Again, he doesn’t sound like a good guy to me. He sounds like a jerk.

Out of curiosity, did any of your friends and family meet him? If so, what did they think?

You’re right: it’s not fair to tell someone you’re serious about them, then dump them a month later because they turned out to be an actual human being with feelings that were not easy-breezy for him. He found himself actually having to care for you and, from the sounds of it, lacked the ability to do so, the desire to do so, or both. But this, again, is why pledges of commitment and seriousness so early on are things to be wary about. I totally get they can make you feel good, but that’s why things like love-bombing (I can share a link with you about this when I am back at my desk) unfortunately are so effective.

Here’s the thing: like it or not (and I sure don’t like it) we have to protect our hearts. There are just too many careless people out there, and it’s just too easy to get attached to people or things based on neurochemicals — on the way our bodies make us feel with someone new we are excited about — instead of in real trust and bonds built over time. Ideally, we won’t get attached or deeply involved with someone until *after* we have had the kind of time and process to have a very good idea that someone is actually the kind of person good for us to get attached to, and who we are likely to be able to actually build something good with.

It’s also so easy, when we’re lonely and hungry for love, to mistake any crush or connection for the good stuff. You’ve had such a bad run for a while now, it’s understandable you’re quite desperately wanting something real and some actual love. So many of us have been there. But when we’re feeling like that is when we are most vulnerable to this kind of thing, and when we actually need to be extra cautious.

How is all of that landing with you? There’s more to talk about from there, but I don’t want to dump too much on you at once.

[Wanjiee]

None of my friends met him, I've only showed them photos, and idk we were just looking at weird stuff like he has a good head shapeYup, he told me not to hate him. I actually don't hate him, I'm trying to. I find it very hard. So like damn okay clearly i was into my feels I didn't see all that.
Wait so how long do people actually get to do the talking stage, i sort of thought that i did average time.
I do have to protect my heart, that I know, but lots of people come along and i really don't know how to tell, everybody just be acting all nice and sweet and everything so younnever really know. And when you end up knowing, you're already attached and now everything is hard tears and all.
And yeah I've had a bad run, that's true, and idk maybe that just makes me settle for sth i think is a little better compared to the previous one, coz i want to feel, to be loved to be seen to be held, and so on.

So i happen to be a crazy bitchi almost texted him and told him if we could meet up (since we're being honest and all) oh and what do i do with the sweater he gave me lmaaoooooo

[Wanjiee]

I feel like what hurts me even more is the fact that I talked to his friends, we vibed, we bonded, like one of his babe friends even kept like telling me how much she's liked me and so on, and i thought that was very cute. And she's always liking my stuff telling me I'm pretty, but now I'm scared to like even hang out with her coz uum would that be breaching a boundary? But i like her too as well.
Oh and as manz was ending his breakup monologue he said maybe time will bring us back together.

[Heather]

Burn it? (I'm only half kidding. Sometimes doing something like that is really cathartic. But if that feels bonkers to you, or you have no place to do that, how about donating the sweater instead? Just get it away from you, IMHO. Don't make this person any more important to you than they deserve to be. This was short and not great past the early honeymoon stage, and I don't think it will help you to make it feel more important than it was, you know?)

So, I'm not sure what you mean by "the talking stage," and there really isn't any normal amount of time people take before committing to a relationship. But there are benchmarks that educators like me or therapists suggest, and like I said earlier, six months at a minimum is a pretty common recommendation. Honestly though, especially given all you have been through, if I was in your shoes I would probably be setting a boundary for myself that I wasn't allowed to commit to a relationship in any big way -- including calling someone a partner, or sexual or dating exclusivity -- for a year. A year is a good amount of time to really, truly get to know each other, to build real trust, to see how things go when there is conflict, to have time for someone new to meet your people and for them to know more about them than how they look (I'm big on second opinions with people I get involved with, and I have some friends whose opinions I trust), and to have time to see what a relationship with that person is actually like and how it makes you feel once all the super-sparkly neurochemicals settle down. But agreeing to something committed and getting super-attached inside a couple months is FAST. Too fast, most of the time, in my opinion, and also clearly much too fast for you, who obviously -- no judgment! -- has a very hard time seeing past your hopes, someone having interest in you, and new relationship energy. I think you also may be on to something when you talk about how you are probably accepting less and less because of wanting so badly to be loved.

Here is that article about love bombing: https://www.scarleteen.com/read/abuse/q ... onal-abuse

I think it will be a really good read for you, particularly to help you see that how people are talking is not a good indication of much. What you really need to see is people showing you they care for you in action, and over time, not just in words, or in surface-level interactions.

I don't think you're crazy, but it does sound like you have some trouble with managing your impulses when it comes to romantic relationships and feelings. You ask how you can tell when someone is sincere and actually right for you. I'd suggest you take his number out of your phone and cut contact so you don't have to worry about doing something impulsive.

Besides a lot of what I have already said, something that might help you is for you to take some time and make a list of what you want in a partner and a love relationship. We could then look at that list and a) first check in to be sure that what is on it is actually the stuff of a healthy, loving relationship, and then b) talk about some things that might demonstrate that a person and a relationship realistically meets those criteria. How does that sound?

In terms of his friend that was nice and who you liked, I hear you that it's also hard to make friends, and I get you might want to be friends with her. But I think doing that won't give you the distance you need from him, and I also have some questions about the quality of people who are his friends, you know? I feel like if she had an actually good read on him and was someone who would be a good friend to you, she would have warned you off of him. I just think you are better off not building relationships with people close to him, not because it's not okay boundary-wise for him, but because it probably isn't for you. <3

[Wanjiee]

On the quality of his friends, I think there are decent people, one of the guys asked me what made me like the guy because he knew that manz doesn't have like desirable traits;but i kinda thought he was joking. Oooh, and i spent a lot of time talking to this guy, the girl was just squealing coz she was finally excited to meet me.
I love how you said that i shouldn't make him as important to me as they deserve to me, because looking back, i feel like heey it didn't go for long, I'm so happy. And woooww, i cried yesterday it's all over, you know.
By the talking stage, i mean the stage two people are getting to know each other, they like each pther, before deciding to start a relationship. A yeaarr?? Oooff am i going to be able to do that, I'm not so sure, but i am so willing to try.
About his number, already taken it out of my phone