I can wait but not for ever

[axolotl]

Hi there, thank you so much for all the articles you've written.

This is the story: I have been with my gf the last 2 and a half years. I really enjoy my relationship with her and I really think we have a strong connection. We've had ups and downs, discussions and conflicts, but we've always had come out of them as a team.

Well... For the last 8 months, something happened, she stoped wanting to be sexual with me. We have our theories about what could had happen, strongly focusing in context and external turn ons/offs. We had come to the conclusion, as she explained to me, that it wasn't that she had lost interest in sex itself, but simply that right now she finds it harder to reach that level of arousal.

We talked it, schedule a day to make the right context, had a great night and it appeared we gained a new sexual functional dynamic, but time kept passing, and little we interacted. I didn't know how to feel. We talked it again.

I started reading Scarleteen articles about relationships and managing different levels of desire on a relationship. I kept on my mind "she's first; I really don't want to her to do anything that she doesn't want to do" (Cause I really don't) And then I didn't know how to feel. I felt bad 'cause this was really getting into me, I felt dumb, immature. I felt really bad because I thought that sex shouldn't determine a relationship, I really thought that breaking up for something like that wasn't a valid reason; I felt like a douchebag for even think about it. We talked it again, this time just because I wanted to know if she still liked me in that way, telling her that I felt like I couldn't be myself anymore out of fear of hurting her by just having an erection; by just feeling aroused; by making a dirty joke or dirty flirting with her. She told me that she stilled had desire, but didn't fell like act on it.

Fast forward, 4 months ago, we talked again. She told me her side of the story and I'm thinking everything differently; more hopeful. She felt pressure by this whole situation and I told her that I didn't want to be an obstacle, that I wanted to make things easier for her. We felt closer, I'd say.

I stoped thinking about how I feel and read several articles on Scarleteen (like 30, no joke). I learned that sometimes, it is just that people aren't compatible and I took a deep look into myself to see how I felt about my relationship. I learned that I do want a sexual and romantic relationship and I couldn't make this dynamic sustainable for the long term. But I also learned that I could wait for the life stage to change. Because I believe in us, everything else is great in our relationship; I love her smile, her eyes when she looks at me, when we talk, when we cuddle, how we make ourselves company... In theory, this whole situation it's just because of context, and it supposedly it will change within the life stage.

I cannot have a relationship where I don't feel free to be my self, including moments of sexual intimacy (showing memes, teasing each other, touching in a erotic way; besides of sex itself) and I cannot wait forever for this situation to change, but I do would wait, knowing that it might not change at all and that it isn't on me.

We talked it again, by accident this time, she still felt pressure, and I reaffirmed her that I wouldn't want be doing anything that she doesn't. I apologized because I really didn't want her to feel pressure since the beginning, and repeat that I wanted to make things easier, not harder.

Pressure down, the air felt lighter, one thing came to another and we're currently on a bit more sexual dynamic. We had sex in this 8 months spam, now it is slightly more common; always making sure is consensual both ways. But then it stroke me...

Now the question:

Is it fair to her not to tell her that I have a time limit? (Or even, is it fair to her if I know I have a time limit) Obviously I don't have a date and a time, just an estimate of when some life conditions might change and I could wait while she adjusts to those changes, but I wouldn’t wait any longer. Is it fair for her? Right now that we can be a bit more sexual, I had really felt that this could work, this dynamic could sustain itself at least till we're standing somewhere new. I've felt like that every time I fell we're taking a step forward towards in our relationship and in this situation.

I suggested the idea of having a plan to her, but we thought that could bring even more pressure if theres a "due date" (not a thing either of us wants). But having a time limit it actually helped me with hope and knowing my own limits. I do think that maybe... I should leave the time limit idea, and taking another approach keeping in mind I can wait, it just not forever.

I haven't tell my gf any of this thoughts, but now we're actually being a bit more sexual and I started to feel like it wouldn't be fair for her if I know I have a time limit. What do I do? I do love her and I do want to make things work, but most importantly, I want her to be safe.

[KierC]

Hi axolotl,

I’m sorry to hear this situation has got you feeling worried. I’d be happy to talk through this with you, but I have some clarifying questions first that might help me understand a bit better. How does that sound to you?

When you refer to a “time limit,” are you referring to the amount of time you’re willing to not have sex with a partner?

In general, it’s okay to have your own boundaries regarding what you’re willing to do and not do in a relationship. But this gets a bit tricky when you’re with another person who has their own desires and needs. Not everybody is going to want to have sex consistently at all points in their life. It’s also very normal to have periods of time where there’s not much sexual activity happening! People get sick, stressed, depressed, life happens and people don’t want to have sex sometimes. That doesn’t mean you can’t talk about it or have feelings about it, but this is just a reminder that in any long term relationship, desire and arousal can be higher or lower at times. I’m wondering what your reaction to that is?

Did I understand you correctly that you are having sex with her again? If so, I am not sure I’d bring up a time limit (if I’m understanding what you mean by time limit), because that might add unwanted stress. Know what I mean?

[axolotl]

Thank you so much for your time.

What I mean by time limit is the amount of time I'm willing to wait for the dynamic to change. I've felt for quite some time that I might not be 100% happy in my sexual relationship and I think is because I had a different expectative about how the sexual dynamic it was going to be. I would say, this dynamic, it's something more than just having sex, is the feeling of being desired and loved. I once read on one of your articles, one person was asking for advice, saying:

I just wanted to feel sexy and desired

(note: I can't fully remember the article or the quote) that resonated with me. This is the part that I am expecting/waiting to change. To feel desired and loved.

I think it's true all of what you said. When people besides me is involved, I have to be thoughtful and caring because they're being open and vulnerable; I have to be loving and respectful about them and their desires. And then, life just happens, nor we always want to have sex, it's normal -Me, myself don't want to have sex all the time, or feel aroused all the time- I do think that everybody has their right ether to want or not to want anything sexual. I'd say that at first, I would think that it was just that, but the difference between the dynamic before and after is such, that I got concerned... I'm still concerned. I'm concerned we might not be compatibles.

Even though I had become a bit more sexual with my partner, and considering that between this 8 months we'd had sex (less common that it used to be) I'm still scare that this actual moment of my relationship in which we're becoming a bit more sexual, is "just a phase" and that we will get back where I started 8 months ago, feeling unloved and undesired.

I guess I'm still worried that just because we're getting a bit more sexual with my partner, that doesn't mean we solved the issue, and that we might not be compatible after all.

This "time" that I'm taking as time limit, it's more for the feeling of stability on my relationship, more than it is for sex itself.

[char]

Hi axolotl, thanks for clarifying. I agree with everything Kier said, especially on the time limit--it doesn't sound like bringing up the time limit is a good idea, as it can make her feel pressured even if it wasn't your intention. If it's okay, I'd like to ask some more questions so we're all on the same page.

From your messages here, it seems like being sexually desired by your girlfriend means a lot to you. It also sounds like that romantic and sexual attraction are intimately linked for you. Why do you think that's the case? This doesn't mean it's a bad thing--a lot of people experience desire and attraction this way--but I wonder if you've thought about it. And, should the "worst case scenario" happened and the two of you didn't have a lot of sex after this, what do you think could happen? Do you feel like you're ready to face this possibility?

I'd also like to know what your girlfriend has said to you about this relationship. Has she shared with you how she sees romantic and sexual attraction? What kind of relationship does she expect from this relationship she has with you? After all, this relationship consists of two person.

[axolotl]

In hindsight... I think I'm being contradictory... I'm waiting for her telling me she still likes me. But when she does I don't believe her. I felt the dynamic changed so quickly and then taking what I felt as a long time with out sexual interaction that I got anxious. But that's totally on me because is my feeling and I should process my anxiety of her not liking me and then my anxiety of her not being honest when se tell me that she still has desire and that it was just that she doesn't want to act on it.

And then... the problem simplifies as the sexual act itself and the expressions of that sexuality. Which, takes me trough another road. So the story should be like this: I want a sexual and romantic relationship, I started one with my gf but 8 months ago the sexual dynamic decrease, we think, because of current life stage, then, carefully, we kept a lower sexual activity in which I am confident of being in because I trust she likes me in a romantic and sexual way no matter how low can we become in our sexual life considering life stages might change our libidos so then it's just a matter of trust. (Exactly what I'm laking, so that's the reason of this whole problem and what I should be taking care of)

Under this assumption, the time limit has no sense, and there is no logic in thinking that I'm waiting for desire to increase when... it never decreased.

Is this train of thought logic or I'm sounding insane, like sweeping the dirt under the rug?



P.D. Indeed she did has told me that is not that she doesn't find me attractive anymore. I actually haven't ask her about her expectations because I didn't want to tell her mines before figuring this out, to be honest, I wasn't sure what was I was expecting to happen, this hypothesis might answer why.

P.P.D. I'm not sure why would I relation sexual with romantic attraction, why would it matter so much to me to feel desired in both ways. I do, both things matter to me. I've asked me that question before but no answer has resonated with me, I couldn't say.

[lilikoi]

Hi axolotl,

I think I understand what you are saying. It sounds like you are having less sex right now which makes you feel insecure about whether your partner is still attracted to you. Is that correct?

If that is the case, let me reassure you that the amount of sex in a relationship does not mean anything about the amount of attraction in the relationship. I would really encourage you to reshape your thinking about that. The only way that we can know how someone else is feeling is by asking them. In your case, your partner has reassured you that she is still attracted to you. Have you ever spoken to a psychotherapist about this insecurity? It is a common anxiety trait to distrust someone else's feelings.

As you work through your feelings about the relationship change, you could also think about different ways your partner could reassure you that she is still attracted to you besides sex. Do you like hearing her compliment the way you look? Do you like finding hidden notes in your bag that say she was thinking about you when you didn't know she way? Do you like spending time together without your phones? It might help to spend some extra time adding reassurance to your relationship. What do you think about that?

[axolotl]

Indeed, that's correct, I felt insecure when we my partner and I started having less sex. I hadn't thought of it that way but that perspective really clicked with me.

I think talking to a therapist would help me to overcome the anxiety I feel about my relationship and that try some of this other ways of reassurance will help, too. I would need some time before start seeing a therapist for economic reasons and I'd also wait a bit before telling my gf that I would like some reassurance, now that I see she's starting to worry less about this topic and I’d like to take some time to process this new perspective myself. In any other way of our relationship, things go pretty well so I think this would be the most sensible way to manage things right now.

I would say that's pretty much it. Thank you so much for you time and your comments, that helped a lot. Thank you so much for your articles and all the help you offer in Scarleteen, too!

[Heather]

Hi there, axolotl.

I do want to pop in here and add a couple things that I haven't seen said to you in this thread but I want to make sure that you hear.

For one, it IS okay to not want to stay in a sexual relationship as a sexual relationship if it isn't sexual anymore or isn't sexual in a way that feels like a fit for you. If I am understanding this situation correctly, eight months is a considerable amount of time for a sexual relationship not to have sex in it, and it's also common for people who want to be in a sexual relationship to want to be sexual with their partner more often than that. There's something else to be said about frequency, too, which is that we know from study that when we are talking about more frequency than every 8 months, but one partner still wanting considerably more frequency than the other, that sometimes the issue is less frequency than the quality of the sex people are having: you haven't said anything about how you both experience and enjoy the sex you are having when you are having it: is it something that feels very satisfying to you both, or...?

People do often forget that when we are in relationships, we always have more options than staying in them exactly as they are and leaving them entirely: those are only two poles with a wide spectrum in between. For example, maybe what might be happening here is that this relationship is changing from one that is sexual to one that isn't, and maybe you and your partner might want to think and talk about if a different kind of relationship might be a good option for you? I've had quite a few partners over the course of my life, for example, where we started out sexual but became platonic friends instead. In fact, that's the case with two of my very best friends of decades now.

[axolotl]

Thank you so much for your message. I fully understand that we all have the right to end or change a sexual relationship if we feel it isn’t working for us. But I would also say that, indeed, some insecurities and anxiety that were affecting me—and still do—may have contributed to complicating the situation.

Since the last response I received, I feel like I’ve taken a step in the right direction. At first, I wasn’t quite sure how to approach the issues my partner and I were discussing, but having a clear head helped me a lot. Separating the emotions that are my responsibility from those I could bring to the table in my relationship so we could address them together was a game-changer, and now I feel like we could approach the sexual aspect of my relationship in a way that makes us both feel comfortable and secure. On the other hand, I’m aware that, when I first started, I had to consider the possibility that the right path for my partner and me to feel more comfortable and secure might have been to end or change the dynamic of our relationship.

Aside from this topic, our sex life was going pretty well for both of us. I really try to make sure we both enjoy ourselves and feel comfortable during our intimate moments. One of the ways I tried to achieve this was by talking to her before, during, and after our time together to make sure she was enjoying it (Questions from curiosity and kindness), so I’m pretty sure our time together made us both feel good.

Right know... I'm pretty confident that our relationship can keep being romantic, and sexual in a way that we can both feel comfortables. 10 days after my last post, seems like I might be right. I know that life could happen, and one day, most probably, our dynamic is going to change again, and that outcome might not be what I would expect or want, but right now I feel confident that right now, we can both feel safe, secure, comfortable and happy together as we are.

[char]

Hi axolotl, thanks for updating us.

I'm so happy to hear that you've found an approach that's worked for you. It is definitely useful to focus on the things you can manage and control: your own thoughts, expectations, and actions. Reiterating what Heather has said, if your relationship dynamic changes in the future and it no longer serves you, there's always an option for you to change it to something else that fits better. I hope nothing but the best for the two of you!

Is there anything else we can help you with?

[axolotl]

Hello again, thank you so much for your time

So...

I'm sorry if I don't know how to write this post properly. I'm really confused right now and I genuinely don't know what to do. I'll start over:

I've been with my gf for 2 years and a half. When we first started to date, we started a sexual relationship at the same time we began our romantic relationship. We were pretty intimate. As we moved forward our relationship we kept a pretty solid sexual dynamic and frequency for 21 months, we were both very happy with our relationship.

Sure, there were times when some of us didn't want to have sex or be at all sexual, even for periods of time as a couple weeks. Any of us could have a time where they're not feeling like to be sexual. Over all, we kept a stable relationship where we could be sexual with each other and have a regular sex life. (aprox. 6 times on a month, some months more that others)

One day, we started a different life stage, and my gf had a few changes in her life that make her stoped wanting to be sexual with me.

At first, we thought that it would be a normal gap as we had it before. A couple of weeks where she wouldn't want to have sex or be sexual at all; this one could had been a period more long as usual but at the end of the day, just that, a short period of time. But time kept passing.

We made some research and found out that some of the changes she had in her life, might contributed to have this period of low libido. So we talked, both of us said how we felt and we schedule a day for us to have sex in a context that would benefit the libido of my gf. We had a great night and since then we started to have sex every once in a month (aprox).

As time kept passing I kept feeling has if anything could had be wrong: maybe something with me, maybe something about our relationship or the sex we had. But all the sex we had was sex she enjoyed. I cared about that since the begging of our relationship, about asking, about takin care for both of us to be in a secure and pleasant place. Every time, she told me she liked it and enjoyed it. I couldn't figure out what was going on.

We talked about it for a couple more times when I concerned, but it took me 4 months to finally understand when she was saying that she still liked me in that way, it was just that she was finding it harder to reach that level of arousal.

I was feeling so anxious about her not liking me and the feeling of her not being able to like me that way anymore; understanding what she was trying to say, helped a lot. It was something that, by itself, already had told me, but I was having trouble believing her because of the low sexual dynamic that we had. For me, it was like hearing something but seeing another. You know?

In all this time I always know that I didn't want her to do anything that she doesn't wanted to do. Her safety is priority to me. We talked about how we both were feeling about our sex dynamic 4 (ish) months ago and I reaffirmed to her that I didn't want to be a obstacle in her journey, but a friendly hand to help. And with out some tensions for both of us, we increase the amount of sex we were having. (2 times a month, aprox)

That was the last that we talked here in my posts.

It has been 3 months since then and I relied on being patience and holding on the fact that my gf still liked me in a sexual way. I'm not gonna lie, having sex 4-5 times in this 3 months wasn't great for this situation but I kept "She still likes me" in my head.

But... time keep passing and I don't feel like this is going to change. I see how meticulous has to be context for her to feel aroused. What I see is a very low low interest in sex itself and sex with me. I've felt so rejected lately. She tells me that she still likes me but then there's no action/comment/joke/expression of sexuality that she want to share with me.

The changes she had in her life witch, we suspect, were causing this change in our sexual dynamic, should end soon in a couple weeks, but I don't know if it really is going to make a difference. I have this feeling that tells me that even if her life stage changes, we would still have this issue. Its hard for me to believe that she's really into me that way. There's some moments witch she'll tell me some jokes or comments in a flirty/dirty way, but its very ocasional, and then, as with sex, its very rare for us to even touch or... jesus... even kissing isn't the same, I miss having those long-deep kisses that felt so romantic... It is as if I'm her best friend.

I know she loves me... I do. But then... we can't even kiss as if we are not in a truth or dare game. And I feel that if I tell her this, she would say "but I still like you, I promise" But then... jesus... I don't know what to believe.

_______________
I would wait...

At the end of the day, I would wait, because I love her. I really do, besides this, everything else is great. So great. Even when we discuss or have differences, we approach the issue and resolve it as a team.

I want to talk about it with her. I want to be a team but I feel that if I tell her all this emotions she will feel pressure for sex to happen, I know I would feel that way. So now I don't know how to approach this issue with her. But if I keep waiting for something external to me to happen that nor me, my gf or anybody else has control on it, I'll never find a solution that suits best for both of us... unless we brake up.

If talking to her about it would make her feel pressured and I'm not longer can resist the feeling of rejection... What can I do then? In this scenario seems best to break up. I really really really don't want to do that. But if is best for both of us... I would do it.

I'm really don't see more options. I guess what I want to ask you with my post is:

• Do you have some advice for me on how to handle this?
  Could/should I talk with my gf before having this decision? (Something like: Hey, I've felt rejected for a long long time, and I know that we already discussed it, but I can help but to feel sad, I would like for you to give me some different types of reassurance while we wait for your libido to absorb the changes we are expecting to happen soon. How you fell about it? Would you rather have another approach?)
  How could I handle that converstion?
  Am I really in a scenario where there's nothing to do but to break up (or change the relationship status) ?
  What options I'm not seeing? Maybe if a had a different view on anything would help me to sustain a dynamic that could wait... ?
  Should I wait?
  I can wait, it just not for ever.

I know this seems long and complicated... but I really really really like her. We work so well in everything else, but I promise that I tried not to freak out about sex, I tried not to think about it, to think about it in a different way, I tried to wait, to talk, to have another kind of reaffirmation, another kind of perspective... I tried everything that I could think or read from but I don't know what to do at all.

[amber]

Hi axolotl, welcome back!

I want to start by saying I think you need to have a conversation with your girlfriend. Although it is great that you have acknowledged your own insecurities around reassurance, I think there is more to this situation than that. You mentioned that the change is not just sex, it is your dynamic as a whole. Flirting, kissing, touching how you used to has all changed.

You already know that stressors, life changes, and time can impact someones desire for sex or intimacy. Have you talked with your girlfriend about the way she thinks these changes have happened? Have you discussed her desires long-term for what a partnership looks like? Some people do not desire sex, kissing, touch, or the other things you mentioned. It is ok to ask your girlfriend how she feels about those things. It may be that she does not desire them, or at least not in the same way you do.

It is great that you are concerned about putting pressure on her and the relationship but understanding where she is coming from, and explaining your own needs, is so important. How would you feel about having a conversation with your girlfriend asking about how she sees sex and intimacy fit into an ideal partnership? How would you feel sharing how you feel on the topic?

[axolotl]

Thank you so much for your response

Well... I haven't talked to my gf about the way she thinks this changes have happened besides the occasions I mentioned, even then, we might kept the surface level. At the moment felt like a good way of handling things, but now I would agree that I should talk to her with a bit more curious and depth. (In a respectful way, of corse. But maybe it is time for more open and honest conversations and facts. I think that would help both of us get a clearer picture of what we can expect and how we might reconcile those expectations)

The same goes for talking about desire in a long term relationship. We might had talked in a surface level that now should be more crystal clear.

So far in what we talked, we know our biggest suspect on how this change of sexual dynamic happened is focus on a specific thing that is within the context of her life stage and that we both see each other as a romantic and a sexual partner for a long term relationship (although we haven't discuss the details of frequency and specific actions/attitudes).

I'm thinking we should have a conversation. I think that it will help me a lot having a clear image of how she sees us in the future and how she's picturing this period of time of low sexual activity (Asking if she sees this period of time as something regular in our long-term relationship or a gap, or anything different).

The idea of talking about this makes me a bit nervous, I don't want to say the wrong thing or say a good thing in a wrong way. Would you have some advice of how to start the conversation? Maybe with a phrase or some keywords that might help getting us in the right path of assertive communication?

Lastly...
I a get a bit nervous because I fear the conversation can get... "compromising". I fear that if I say all of this, there will not be a turn back, and if we're talking and find out for sure that some images/expectations or anything else isn't compatible, we should end the relationship right there on the spot.

I'm not sure if it sounds crazy... but I fear that if I tell her that I want to know if she sees our relationship as a sexual one in a long term the same way that I do; by asking that, it already would make her guess that I'm not happy with the relationship we have now and project some pressure on herself and then (say) she would find out that she doesn't see our relationship as I do, then... there will be no other option to break up. She would feel a constant pressure of "making me happy" and I couldn't help but to feel rejected and I wouldn't have any way of taking that pressure down. So it would better for us to end it right there. Know what I mean?

It would be great if you could help me with these few questions so I can feel a little more confident before talking to her. I'd really appreciate it.

[Latha]

Hi there, Axolotl!

It makes sense that you would be hesitant to talk to your girlfriend when it feels like there is so much weighing on this one conversation. If it seems like too much pressure to ask about the future of your relationship and the expectations she has for it, do you think it would be easier to talk to her about whether there is anything you can do that might help with those external factors, and about other ways you can find intimacy and show appreciation for each other? (We have an article about intimacy that might give you some ideas to work with.)

To add something that my colleague Char mentioned to me: if you conversation results in the two of you thinking that staying in this relationship isn't possible/right, it would not be a failure on either of your parts. It may just be the reality of the situation, and the kindest way forward for both of you. Equally, you do not need to be in a romantic relationship forever in order for the time you spend together to be worthwhile. Think about how you can best show love to each other, and how you can structure your relationship to support that. As Heather said earlier, relationships can start out one way and become another, and the people involved can care for each other all the same.

You've mentioned that there are life events and external factors that have apparently caused your partner's disinterest in sex. Would you feel comfortable telling us what that life stage is/what those factors are? Having that context could shed some light on your questions.