Advice on how to get better

[S88]

I’m afraid this post is probably a long one so I apologise in advance.
I also wanted to clarify a couple of things at the start. Firstly I’m in a safe place now and I have a very loving and supportive partner who is very patient with me. It’s in part to be a better partner to them I feel I’d like to try and move forwards and am asking for advice on where I should start. This and the link to a post here I’m posting below are what have prompted me to post here.
https://www.scarleteen.com/read/abuse/n ... nd-assault
This link is someone talking about a situation that has some similarities to mine, but also some places I could have ended up had circumstances gone differently.

I am neurodivergent and come from a neglectful narcissistic family. I wasn’t the golden child. I’m very aware of all the huge flags that wave saying come look how easy this person would be to abuse, plenty have done just that. I’m old enough to have seen the old how to turn autistic women into sex slave articles that used to go around the internet.
It’s also the first time I’ve written things that have happened down, but I really do want to accept things and try to move past them. On the one had I have acknowledged things on a practical level but I don’t think I have ever dealt with things emotionally and I think that is where I am stuck now.

I have had several abusers. They have abused in different ways. One is a sibling, but that’s a little more complicated and I don’t want to talk about that right now, so this isn’t everything. The abuse has happened over long periods of time so it would be impossible to write all of it anyway.

The first, a drama teacher, was giving me extra support as I had been “uncooperative” and “acting out” after being diagnosed as on the spectrum. I was upset at the time that my parents and tutors had been watching me behind my back for months to diagnose me. I was a late diagnosis, 13, as my parents were too busy with my brother. And the young in training drama teacher was encouraged by my mum to get me to behave again. I know because he told me as he was abusing me, that no one was going to believe I didn’t want things since I was only “acting out”. It started with singing lessons that weren’t singing lessons. They were him teaching me how to please a man perfectly. Escalating in what was expected of me till my Christmas “present” for being very good. That was when he forced him self on me instead of just making me kiss him or give him blow jobs and such. And when I fought back and said no. So he made sure it hurt and told me I’d never be believed. I hadn’t started my periods yet, though it was assumed that was what it was. I got told off for getting blood everywhere because I should have known better to expect my period coming by now. So I never did say anything. And my period actually started afterwards, so no one ever noticed.

My second abuser came at college, I was the only girl in our class of teenaged boys. One girl and about ten 16-18 year old boys and one 40 year old student. It was a mixed class of ages as different people started at different times. As you can imagine being the only girl available to them, the majority of the class tried it. Several of them forcibly touched me. Tried to get me to date them. I ended up “choosing” the one who the others seemed to respect more so they’d all stop touching me. I didn’t care that he wasn’t any better. I thought I deserved it. I was still stuck on needing to make people happy to be wanted or loved.
He was a huge fan of the recently busted rape rings in our area. Wanted his own one day. Thought I’d be perfect since I still looked like a child but was legal. Can’t be done for child abuse if you’re legally allowed sex. In the uk anyway. He used to make me have a drink every time I was at his house. Eventually I found out the reason he made me go to his house, under niceties at first and then threats, was so he could try to drug me before he abused me. He was so happy I was already well trained, he just wanted to make me more compliant. Disappointingly for both of us, I was immune to the drugs he laced the drinks with. For what ever reason most of the normal date rape drugs don’t actually work on me. I don’t get drunk, I don’t get high and I don’t get knocked out in the normal way. So he’d physically hurt me to make me obey, like pouring boiling kettle water over my hands. Then he’d buy me things to say sorry for hurting me. Worse still he’d follow me after class when meeting up with my gran and pay for her fish too. It used to be a shared hobby i had with my gran, we’d keep tropical fish and go together to the shop to get new bits for the tanks of food and such. He’d follow along and intervene by buying stuff. He knew both of us were financially struggling at times, so he’d pay before we could stop him and add in extras he knew we couldn’t pay him back for so we’d have to go along with his “gift”.

He lost his hold on me in the end when I realised his biggest threat couldn’t actually happen. I learnt that if he did actually just take what he wanted in the middle of college someone might actually stop him. That not all of the guys in my class could be bought by being offered a turn with me. He’d tried to share me with his friends too, but he hadn’t counted on my fighting back that day and them loosing their nerve and running off. I did get punished for that one. He held a knife to my throat and forced himself on me. When he took the knife away I kneed him in the balls and I guess that’s when he stopped trying so hard to control me. He realised I just didn’t care anymore. When I left college he left me alone. I mean there were threats of never talking about it, but I wasn’t hurting me anymore so at the time I didn’t care. I still thought I deserved it all. I still thought sex was all I was good for anyway.

My other main abuser was more of the mind play and controlling kind than the raping kind. Coercion and obedience. He was a narcissist but since he wasn’t abusing me as bad as before so I thought it was normal. I thought it was ok to be treated like that. It took a long time to learn the difference. To learn that not as bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable.

The problem I struggle most with is after all of that I feel guilty. When ever my partner now wants to give me pleasure I get guilty for it. I mean I imagine it’s pretty obvious none of them cared about my pleasure or wants but just in case none of them ever cared to reciprocate. I was told that I’m dirty and disgusting. That no one would ever want to give me oral since I’m disgusting and how dare I ask. Or how dare I asked to be kissed after giving blow jobs. And those words are still stuck. When my current partner actively asks can he give me oral sex, sometimes I get too anxious to be able to feel comfortable. Or if I’m feeling brave enough to let him I can get so guilty during that it stops being pleasurable. He always stops as soon as I say I can’t, even if we’re in the middle of stuff. I just feel weirdly guilty that I can’t give him the satisfaction of being able to give me pleasure back when I get so anxious. That I can’t give him a normal relationship. Is there a way to feel less guilty about him giving me pleasure when it’s something he actively wants to do. A thing that excites him as well as me. I’m better the I was to begin with and can be less anxious if I’m giving it him at the same time as him giving it to me. But I’d like to be able to let him pay attention to just me when he asks for that.

[Sam W]

Hi S88,

I want to start by saying that I'm so sorry that multiple people in your life made the choice to abuse you, and that I am so, so glad to hear that you're now in a relationship where you feel safe and supported.

There are a few different things I think could help you let go of the guilt you're dealing with right now and find a sexual relationship that's comfortable and enjoyable for you and your partner. The first is to, as much as you can, remind yourself that you have nothing to be guilty for; you didn't cause the trauma you're now carrying or the horrible messages your still reacting to. The people who chose to abuse you did.

You mention that your partner is supportive and patient. Have you felt comfortable telling them about the fact that you're dealing with trauma from sexual abuse? I ask because I wonder if you might feel better if you're able to tell them some of what you've told us here about how you WANT to accept pleasure, but that the trauma you're carrying is creating some barriers with that.

Too, can you give me a sense of what kind of support, if any, you received around the abuse? That could be more formal support like counseling, or more informal things like asking for support and belief from your friends or trying to find self-help resources for survivors.

[S88]

Hi Sam W,

Thank you for replying.

My partner is aware about my past. In fact he’s one of the reasons I learnt not as bad doesn’t mean it’s acceptable. We have been friends for a very long time before we ended up in a relationship. We used to game together a lot and he used to visit me to cheer me up after I had major surgery that everyone else around me was pretty unsupportive around (medically necessary to live but meant I can never have kids much to my parents disappointment). I have told my partner that I want to be able to do things without feeling guilty or anxious and he is being very understanding about it. He’ll ask if it’s ok to try today and stop if not. Sometimes we both make mistakes there but we keep talking to each other and work through misunderstandings. I never thought anyone could be that understanding and kind to me really.

It’s probably a bad sentence to ask which abuse are you asking if I received professional support from?

Although I guess the answer is mostly the same, no one medically trained is aware people have forced themselves on me. I did attend spectrum specific counciling about an issue I was having once however they got so hung up on something they were aware of in the background that they didn’t help at all with what I was asking for help with. I didn’t mention anything “worse” then that because I didn’t feel it would be productive to achieving my goal there if they were going to get so hung up on other things. For context, I had a very anti disability tutor who actively exam tampered with my work at university and they got hung up on that over supporting me feeling comfortable in interacting with others better. I’m now aware what was actually the issue was undiagnosed ADHD I needed meds for but as no one was actually listening to what I was saying properly it was a very fruitless exercise.

I’d say I probably have quite a bad series of experiences within all the support sectors. I keep being that case that slips through the net. When I was diagnosed as spectrum they didn’t even diagnose me properly because they were changing the service and so wanted a tick the box and off you go case so I never got any support then. And any further attempts to get back into the system for any help I usually get started with someone, then as soon as they finish their mandatory starting process they end up leaving the service for any number of reasons. I just get passed around or discharged without ever getting past the first steps that they all insist I must follow.

I end up feeling like if I can’t get professional help for something smaller or even then to actually follow the support guidelines they are meant to adhere to, how on Earth can I ask them for help with bigger stuff? How can I be sure they’d actually offer help that I need rather then telling me what they think I need and not actually helping at all? Unfortunately I’ve found if I need help with things I either have to fight for it or do it myself alone. That’s why I was hoping there might be something I could do for myself that I’ve missed. I’ve read tons of scientific papers and journals on all sorts and studied plenty of fields before. I’m just not finding any method that clicks with me for this one unfortunately.

I’m not sure if this is necessary to add or not but since I mentioned reading science papers and journals I would like to clarify I went to uni for biomedical research (cancer/immunology specialty) and previously have studied forensic psychology. I understand what I’m reading from a medical point of view fine and have had plenty of training in understanding and implementing lots of it. The one good spectrum psychologist I did used to see used to have chats with me about psychology principles and upon leaving said he hoped he could get to work with me one day if I do manage to get my PhD project funded. I thought I’d add this just in case since some people find understanding what I can understand and follow alone easier to discuss topics when they know. This is probably a little spectrum anxiety/ past experiences feeling I end to justify the way I explain things in this paragraph, so feel free to ignore it if it’s unnecessary.

[Sam W]

You're welcome! I'm so glad to hear your partner is supportive, and that you feel able to talk about this!

I'm so, so sorry to hear that your experiences with formal support networks have been so lackluster and downright unhelpful. Among other things, it doesn't sound like attention was paid to any kind of continuity of care (so your case kept getting passed around and functionally re-starting) or to the fact that you had multiple issues that might need addressing, rather than just a single one, and you deserved to be more than the case that got shuffled from person to person.

I ask about what kind of support you received because it helps me know what kind of help you may or may not have had, so I don't accidentally recommend something that you know hasn't helped you. It also sounds like, given your experiences, you might feel more comfortable utilizing tools for self-help along with the support we're offering here.

With that in mind, you notice you mention you've done a lot of research and that your background is in, among other things, a branch of psychology. Can you tell me how much you've read about trauma and how it effects us? And what the current or emerging approaches to repairing trauma are?

Too, if the option was available, do you think it would be useful to have resources by and for autistic survivors of abuse? If so, that's something I'm happy to help you find.

[S88]

Well I’m not 100% sure exactly how relevant all theories I’ve studied are but I’ll mention them so you know what I’m aware of.

CBT( cognitive behavioural therapy) definitely doesn’t work on me. While it was administered poorly the methodology didn’t particularly click well with me. While I can play devils advocate my anxiety tends to present as evidence based statements that are pretty hard to argue around, or at least we ended up in circles previously as they ended up proving my statement more accurate then less unfortunately. Although to my understanding spectrums and CBT tend to not mix well anyway.

I would definitely appreciate autism specific resources if those are available. I have really a lot of literature about the condition for various reasons but would always read more from a matter of interest if nothing else. Unfortunately where I am currently living the autism support service flat out refuse to see me and reject any attempts my my GP to do otherwise. The local crisis department also refused to talk to me at a worse point in time saying they “don’t deal with spectrums”. I can’t get referred out of area either, I have tried that a few times as well.
Private isn’t an option on two levels, financially I can’t afford it and practically all of the autism support services are not taking new patients as they already have too many.
As for being passed about like an unwanted side dish the excuse is always “you’re so high functioning” or “you seem to be coping fine”. Apparently they don’t care if you can’t have the explosive breakdowns some do and just carry on taking stuff. As long as you look functional all is good and you don’t actually need help. I’m aware enough this whole attitude has probably perpetuated my current problem given I’m told I’m not allowed to ask for help if I don’t break in the right way. Being told off for expressing there was a problem and told to just get on with it has probably made things very easy for abusers to continue their abuse. Though I’m sure you hear that a lot.

In terms of psychology, other then CBT I have been on the receiving end of talking counciling as a child that didn’t work as I had selective mutism (dumb name) and refused to speak to anyone at all for about a year after my grandpa died. And yes that wasn’t apparently wasn’t a big enough flag at the time I might be spectrum, they were too worried about my brother and school. Before the CBT (which was done during the pandemic) they tried mindfulness reprogramming methods, which again were dropped midway through getting anywhere. I think those also had some soft CBT methods mixed in at the time but well I never really found out where that was going as they dropped it.

Other principles I’ve studied involve Freud (let’s be fair he turns up constantly though so no shocks there), Jung’s active imagination, Schwartz’s internal family systems, Assagoli’s psycosynthesis and one that was about voice dialog but can’t remember the specific name of the person behind it. There has also been work on addiction, methodologies to make people aware of their addiction and how it interacts with crime and repeat offending. And while not relevant was interesting alot of work on profiling crimes and criminal cases and how it works in principle vs practice. We did alot of case studies like the failings of this in the Yorkshire ripper case and such. It’s was alot more why someone might do it a crime or why they might repeat the crime and tracking them down type work over how to fix them. I will say it wasn’t a psychology specific course, more one of those study all the areas interconnected with the field and specialise outwards type courses. I just was in the habit of reading papers because the books never said enough since school. I’m one of those learn everything about a thing types then find something new to learn everything about. Though the one spectrum specific trait I’m very proud of having is the fact I am so field flexible. Despite all the troubles of being spectrum I wouldn’t give up that gift to be “normal” even if it would have meant I never had that abuse.

[Sam W]

I'd say being field flexible is quite the trait to be proud of, if for no other reason that it encourages curiosity and engagement with lots of different ideas, which I think is a net positive.

Also, what on earth, I am so sorry a resource told you they "didn't deal with spectrums." Even if they aren't, for some reason, equipped to aid an autistic client, they should have referred you to a resource that did. I also want to say that I hear you on that feeling of not deserving help unless you break the "right" way; you right that that's something I hear from a lot of survivors. The truth is, you DO deserve help, just like you deserved to be heard and believed when you tried to tell people what was being done to you. Sometimes just getting through the day, just functioning enough to stay afloat, is the goal to aim for. But you also get to try for a life where you're doing more than just getting by, you know?

It does sound like you've read a LOT, and have had enough experiences to know what kind of therapy isn't a great fit for you. I will say that CBT is one that gets recommended a lot, including when it may not be the best fit, so it makes sense to me that you didn't find it helpful. Our of curiosity, have you ever looked into EMDR? It's relatively new (at least compared to CBT), but I know several people who used it with pretty big success in terms of getting their trauma to a manageable place. And even if it doesn't turn out to be your thing, you might still enjoy learning about it.

I'm wondering if some reading on the neurobiology of trauma, and on the somatic approach to trauma, might be beneficial to you. I think it might give you some context for why you're still feeling how you do that resonates with the way you seem to ingest knowledge, while also potentially directing you towards some approaches to treatment based in those understandings. If that's of interest, I could find you some.

I'll look for some autistic specific resources for survivors! The one I had in mind seems to be defunct, but I'll keep looking. I've also asked one of our team who is in the U.K if they know of any smaller ones that might not be coming up in my search.

[S88]

Unfortunately yes it’s pretty common to be told no we can’t help you. I did actually try some of the uk based location specific services designed for autism and also got told we can’t help by them too. So if you do hear of any it would be great to know they exist. Thanks for asking.

Being able to get context on why I feel this way still sounds like it might help. I do find it easier to deal with things I can rationalise and currently my feelings feel very irrational to the situation. I don’t get why now it’s suddenly started bothering me a lot. I coped for so long after without feeling anything yet now I suddenly feel again.

EMDR also seems an interesting principle so I’d like to learn more or learn how they start to apply the first stage for now. Understanding why you feel that way seems a powerful tool even if you don’t follow the same therapy pathway about what you do with that information.

If you have resources you suggest are good for this I’d like to read them. I will probably do my own research too but starting places on new concepts are always handy .

Thank you for your giving me time so far and also for saying I’m allowed to feel like it’s ok to want more the just existing with it. Places saying that’s all you should strive for really make you feel all the more like there isn’t a point to trying. I definitely feel like I have a point atm, I have a goal I want, it’s just hard some days and I’d like to be better. Better at enjoying what I have over guilty and anxiety that I don’t deserve what I do have. Or end up in a spiral that I feel I should loose it because it’s not something I deserve every bad day I have.

[Jacob]

Hey S88!

I've been through the CBT offerings on the NHS a few times with nobody even suggesting I might have ADHD... which it turns out is a pretty big factor. I had one or two positive experiences within that but some of them, especially my attempts from the past few years, were absolutely awful, so I feel you.

I'm the person Sam mentioned, and I have pinged a couple of therapists I know, to ask if they have any resources, as trauma + being on the spectrum is a pretty big part of their work.

Taking this back to the difficulty you had around sex with your partner, I must say that even with all the complications of trying to make it work, I am pretty relieved to hear that you are in a position to explore what feels good and what doesn't feel good with your partner, after all the crap you've had to go through until now. Being able to say "I don't know why this isn't working for me and I want to work out why, and what I can do about it" is a big departure from just having to contort your needs to fit abuser after abuser.

I'm sure you've already reflected on this, but I think it's worth reminding ourselves of the distance already traveled. If you are ever feeling pessimistic about how this has gone so far, it's worth remembering that it's early days as far as the rest of your sex life is concerned. To me, it makes total sense to feel guilty around sex, especially receiving pleasure, and letting your own pleasure be number 1, while the very instincts which got you through past experiences are all hammering the "You are doing the wrong thing!" buttons in your psyche/brain.

So aside from therapy, which still might be a good thing to keep exploring, it sounds like your sexual relationship right now, already is a pretty safe place. If that's the case, then I think you could do a lot worse than experimenting further. It could be something as simple as as holding hands and taking note of that good feeling. It could be that an unusual activity feels unexpectedly pleasant. What matters is that these positive experiences are allowed to be felt.

What has your partner said about this since you first talked about it being a problem?

[S88]

Hi Jacob,

Thanks for your message and for asking about uk support sources.

I’m aware I’ve come a way from where I was. I know you might need to edit this bit out but I’m going to type it here for you to see anyway. Last may I was planning my death in total honestly. I was stuck living with an abusive ex partner, my parents were being frankly awful (apparently he was artificially making that worse) and since I rent from them and was trapped financially I had no way out. As said before I’m in a much safer position now so don’t worry but that’s how things were last year. I wanted to feel loved one last time before I went and while it’s never been a positive thing, sex through all the lies is an association I have of giving someone your meant to love. And well I knew my now partner had been alone for a long time. I also knew he was the person in my life who had all the opportunities to do so but had never actually let me down. Never lied to me. So I asked would he spend a night with me for my birthday and have fun, I know it might be daft but I wanted to make him happy, someone who I cared a lot about. He said he’d think about it but we ended up on a definitely “not a date” meet up to watch a film together and catch up since we’d not seen each other so much recently. He made me feel so wanted and was just so happy to be around me again it completely changed my perception on stuff. Not over night, but enough to make me realise I hadn’t got nothing left and my care for him wasn’t one sided. He’s not my only reason, I’d never put that on someone, it’s never fair. But he really helped me realise that I could be wanted and it not actually have strings attached. And as time has past and he’s not changed into someone who hurts me or manipulates me to get what he wants it’s helped. I feel safe for the first time in as long as I can remember. It’s scary at times but I want it. I want him and they way he treats me and makes me feel, and to make him feel the same.
It’s a lot of his influence on always asking if he can make me feel pleasure too that’s helped me not want to just suit another’s will constantly. He’s proven it’s not a line to make me obey again if you know what I mean.

In regards to what he says about the issue. He’s said I don’t have to give him anything to make him happy, that he’s happy as things are now. It’s me he wants and if that means I get anxious at times that doesn’t mean he doesn’t want me just because it happens. He’s much more concerned with if we are both happy generally. It’s more if I give him blow jobs and individual attention he then asks if he can reciprocate. Does this answer what you asked or do I need to clarify more?

Also thank you Sam for speaking to Jacob as well about this. I appreciate the time you have both taken for me.

[Sam W]

I'm so glad talking with both of us is helpful!

I have a few resources in mind for learning about how trauma impacts out brains and how that can play out in both our emotions/thoughts and our bodies: https://www.unco.edu/assault-survivors- ... rauma.aspx
https://www.sciencedirect.com/science/a ... 3423000027
https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC9720153/

[Jacob]

Hey again S88, also a reply from me!

True, our user guidelines state that we won't engage with folks who are actively suicidal, simply because other places are more prepared with proper systems in place for that kind of crisis, while we neither are nor aim to be that, so we kindly redirect them. But just mentioning that you were once suicidal in the past is fine, especially as you didn't go into any detail. It also seems like a pretty important part of your story to-date! Good things come to us in strange ways sometimes, even at real low points (I can definitely relate to that) so I actually don't think it was at all daft to have thought "I [want] to feel loved..." The fact that you thought of it as only being for "one last time" probably helped you so much to feel permitted to state that desire to yourself, and it's not daft either to have wanted to make him happy to experience what it's like to show love to someone you actually cared about and felt safe with. Not only did you have every right to feel that and want that, you have that same right in the present when it isn't conceived of as the last time.

Given that its barely been a year since you were still living with an abuser, and with insensitive parents, this is all still going to feel heavy within the broader context of your what you've been put through. But I think it's worth saying that many of those wounds will heal, and what I'm seeing is you doing the work which will help that happen. I don't say that to imply "You're doing fine, so you don't need care or support", I'm saying it because helping you while you do that is where that support would slot in.

I've noticed that you are very good at writing about it, and I wonder if you keep a journal. I do like therapeutic activities that result in tangible things you can hold in your hands, which you have made yourself. The therapist I mentioned works in Art Psychotherapy which is especially good for that sort of feeling.

It's very frustrating that free and accessible local care isn't forthcoming, but we are also here! We're not therapists but you are more than welcome to document your reflections and feelings, and get encouragement from us along the way.

[S88]

To both Sam and Jacob,

Sam, thank you for those links. I’d prefer read them before I say anything about them, I just wanted to acknowledge I have seen them and appreciate you sharing them.

Jacob
I wasn’t sure the boundaries for discussion hence I said I understood if it needed removing to follow forum guidelines. Thank you for clarifying where in the boundaries it was.
It may be a daft question, is it normal in circumstances like these to no longer be sure of your own desires at times? To find expressing and engaging in them unsure.

I’m glad it seems to be the right direction, sometimes it’s hard to know what’s actually a positive way forwards and not everyone will tell you. Obviously everyone’s path is different but it helps to have perspective.

I don’t actively journal, I actually would say my expression clarify comes from else where. English is not my first language. By this I mean I’d say spectrum is my first language. I don’t think in words. In my head information is much more stored in pictures, sensations and feelings. I tend to need to translate my thoughts and so take care in being clear in my meanings.
I definitely like tangible things like that though. I have probably engaged in self art therapy with my miniature paintings. Each model I finish painting is a real achievement of something I managed to finish. A task I was actually capable of completing. Something I can come back to and think yes I did that and I’m happy with it.

Thank you for saying it’s ok to continue talking, I have been scared for a long time of actually talking about it to people. Beyond more stating the fact of oh this happened. It’s difficult to ask for help when you’re conflicted on if you need it or not.

[Jacob]

No problem! And also, yes, unfortunately it's very common. It would actually be relatively unusual not to have at least some version of the struggles you have experienced.

What you said about having to put things into words makes a lot of sense, thanks for lending some insight! That aspect of being on the spectrum can end-up being helpful sometimes. Neurodivergent people often accumulate a fair bit of experience having to deliberately find the words and consciously construct the sentences to express difficult feelings, because hey, it has always been difficult, whereas somebody who has always found verbal self-expression easy might be completely overwhelmed when they experience a loss-for-words for the first time.

Miniature painting sounds like such a good thing for you! Maybe the "I did that and I’m happy with it" feeling is what was missing from some of the seemingly prescriptive approaches to therapy you experienced in the past. Your recovery really should feel like your recovery, and you'd hope it would somewhat reflect all the things that make you you. If images, sensations and feelings are more "your language" then therapies or forms of self-care that include those aspects might me a good focus!

How do you feel about other types of artmaking? Like drawing, collage, painting, model/sculpture making?

Also just a thought about your situation with your boyfriend, how do you feel about him asking to pleasure you? Is it nice having the opportunity to give it a go, and the stress is more attached to when it doesn't work out, or would it be helpful for him not to ask you for a while, until for example you tell him you feel like trying again?

It sounds like you are enjoying the stuff that you are doing to an extent, like there is a type of pleasure many of us do get from giving pleasure. Some of this might be about working out how to best take care of yourself in the space between now and being a bit further along in your self-care/healing time.

[S88]

Thank you for answering that question.

Yeah, experience in always being overly aware in communication helps. I also used to run a society at university to help those with hidden disabilities so have a fair bit of experience communicating at lots of levels. The tricky bit of communication is neurotypical hidden language and expectation barriers. And the expectation that because they use double meanings “everyone” does. It’s harder to use words when people add extra meanings to your words that you don’t know exist.

Yes I really like it. I used to do more 2D forms of drawing but as I have some motor disability issues that one caused more pain to engage in at times so felt more limiting as to when I was able to engage with it. I do still paint and draw in 2D mediums and still love it but it feels less accessible compared to the miniatures for me. I’m definitely a big science nerds and always like to engage in learning new stuff but equally I have always been very artistic and like to be involved in lots of forms of art. Besides painting and drawing I do photography and digital graphics work.

It has been pointed out to me by my partner (he came to see me yesterday and I showed him this because we have completely open communication. It’s easier and we both don’t have to guess what each other thinks and feels because we tell each other clearly.) that I might have been neglecting my self care recently. I haven’t painted since the start of the year really. My situation was quite drastically and dramatically changed.
For context my gran (who I tend to call my second mum) ended up in hospital dying at the end of the last year suddenly. Sepsis is a very unexpected occurrence and unfortunately it eventually won. The abusive ex partner during this time decided he wanted to move out and make me homeless (financial abuse that was also lies as turns out I was actually paying more then he was anyway) as I wasn’t paying him enough attention by dealing with my gran in hospital. So not only did I then have to deal with the aftermath of all of that (obviously now it’s a good thing but at the time was very much a thing I wasn’t sure was actually good but now I have information I was lacking at the time) but I also lost gran during it. As a result of my gran dying we also had to suddenly empty her flat very fast as it was a council flat and they make you do it all in short notice or loose things. So I haven’t actually had my painting space since as both things meant lots of things being dumped in space available and other priorities in tidying up the space. I know it’s now June but I’ve needed the headspace to process how to tidy up things as well as having pretty serious surgery that was originally scheduled the day after my grans funeral (they cancelled it on the day after making me wait several hours). I tend to deal with the practicality of things when under stress over looking after myself so I haven’t made sure to give myself my painting space back yet for dealing with everything else. So it might be something upon reflection and seeing what you said about therapy types that I actually need to prioritise now.
So I guess I’ll set my self a little goal this week of tidying space so I can paint and finding myself a new painting project I’d like to do. All the pervious therapy people used to set goals before so that’s probably sensible.

I don’t especially feel comfortable asking for it. I have at times asked if he’d touch me or do specific things while we are engaging in the act but I get too anxious to ask for him to start it. I’d say the stress comes more from being told I’m something that’s dirty and disgusting and that I shouldn’t dare ask for pleasure. Before only my abusers pleasure mattered and I’m still stuck with someone of the things they said when I asked for reciprocal affection. It’s been taught that even thinking I’d like it back so well I get anxious even if he asks can he do it to me sometimes. Or says he’d like to give it to me.
I do however really like giving him pleasure and doing things he likes. It makes me happy seeing him happy. I like satisfying him. I wouldn’t enjoy it if he didn’t. Is this what you mean by pleasure at giving pleasure?

[Jacob]

Yep that's what I meant! And I think it's worth broadening our definition of pleasure to include things like enjoying our partner's pleasure so that maybe some of that guilt you feel around receiving oral sex, for example, can dissipate because maybe there are more similarities than differences between the sexual act you enjoy and share and happens to focus more on his body, and the sexual act you want to enjoy and share and just happens to focus more on your body. In both cases you are still two people appreciating the care you have for each-other together.

I'm sure me saying that won't suddenly make the guilt go away, and in some ways it is a bit abstract, but I wanted to at least suggest 'mutuality' as a way to frame your thoughts about sex, and the sex you aspire to. Especially as the framing you've internalised from the abuse and assaults has been so not mutual.

It's good to hear that you have been asking for things at all, and doing so at your own pace, which for now might just be once in a while. That 'stuck' feeling can be really rough, but if you have only very recently had the chance to start caring for yourself again it is still early days! I'd think of each time you ask for something for yourself, and try to relax into it, that you're watering a tiny seed, which might be deep in the soil for now, and it might only grow a little each time but the rewards of trusting yourself and your body even when it doesn't respond the way you've hoped, or anxiety floods in and you try not to berate yourself for it, you are still growing and the benefits are more likely to be felt some time later.

My other question was about how you feel about him asking you if he can reciprocate oral sex; like would you prefer it if the frequency of him asking, or when, or how he asked you was different?

Goal-setting can be helpful, maybe not for everyone all the time, but it sounds like you stumbled on a mini-goal that you feel good about and sounds doable. Getting back into past hobbies sounds like such a good idea! It could be also be pretty cathartic if some of the feelings you've described here became part of your paintings. Having expressive ways to move through things like grief, trauma, but also love, pleasure, can be such a gift... as of course can painting whatever you feel like!

[S88]

Sorry for delayed reply, I had a busy day.

In one way that could be why I feel more guilty currently. I already have the association that it’s pleasurable for me to give him oral sex and so feel like when I can’t go through with the inverse I’m denying him a pleasure he likes to do. I think that’s the more frustrating thing for me about it. I don’t think I’ve experienced it enough through previous abuse and now anxiety to know if I like it or not yet for myself and he already gives me so much more than I’ve ever had so it’s not a pressure on myself that I want it as such. It’s a I feel like him denying him something that he likes because I’m over anxious and feeling like I shouldn’t be given it. I think I’m less guilty about other things but I don’t like being the sole focus ever.

Is it possible this particular act is harder because while I was refused being touched and other things before the way it was refused was much more passive. More things like being told of it should be enough, that I’m only there to please them etc over overtly being told I’m something disgusting and undesirable. I think they term the second type of wording more aggressive wording or wording intended to hurt I guess.

Thinking about the feeling in a more removed context I did used to get anxieties about being kissed, especially after giving oral sex because of previous experiences. My partner pretty much shocked that anxiety out of me though by asking if next time I went to swallow him I could share it with him instead. When he went and did it and then didn’t tell me off it kinda broke that anxiety. Though that isn’t happening with receiving oral sex, there’s more more time in the act of relieving to end up over thinking comparatively. Hopefully that description isn’t too detailed to be uncomfortable here.

I think in some ways being asked is part of the problem at times. When I’m more burnt out having more decisions to make can give me decision paralysis. Deciding if I’m ok with thing that’s happening or not is less effort then trying to answer what do I want and how do I want it if that makes sense. Equally I know he wouldn’t ever want to do things without asking to begin with, he always asks. We have stopped plenty of times before when one of us has said oh I thought I wanted this but actually I don’t now we are doing it. Or I wanted it just for a little bit but that’s enough and we don’t need to finish. We both tend to check in a lot as we do things and talk a lot while engaging in it to make sure we are both comfortable. I know that level of communication is a very positive thing but sometimes it can be a lot to make the choices it needs on topics that bring up anxiety.

The art psychotherapy therapist you mentioned before, are they a uk based one? And are they on private practice or an nhs based service? I’m a little curious to learn more. Maybe I need to try someone who has a more tactical approach after reflecting on things that connect well with me before. I remember it being said that when I had the councillor person as a kid while I was mute with people I apparently would just sit and colour things with them so maybe there’s something in that even if there’s different contexts behind the situations.

[Sam W]

Hi S88,

Jacob is out for the weekend, but I'll leave them a note that you asked for more detail about the art therapist!

With those situations where you're feeling decision paralysis, or even just "I'm so tired, no more questions," I wonder if working with your partner to come up with some non-verbal cues or hand signals to use in those moments might be helpful. Those can often feel a little less taxing, since you're not having for formulate and verbalize an answer, you're simply having to give an indicator that means something like "keep going" or "stop."

You know, with that guilt around receiving oral sex in particular, it might help to think of it this way: in any sexual relationship, there are likely to be things that one person likes that another person just isn't into. The reasons they're not into it can vary, and can include things like trauma or negative associations, or be more about just not finding the activity all that fun or interesting. Building a healthy sexual relationship doesn't mean you, or your partner, gets to do every thing that brings them pleasure. Instead, it's far more about the things you and your partner are already doing, like communicating and working out what things you both enjoy and both are comfortable with. And I think any halfway decent partner understands that not everything they like will be to their partner's taste, and that's okay (and it sounds like something your partner does indeed understand).

[Jacob]

What Sam said! But also I am happy to put you in touch... Would it be OK to contact you via email?

I think at the very least this therapist, who has a private practice, would be happy to do an introductory call, explain what they do, and point you in the right direction if it wasn't for you for whatever reason.

[S88]

Hi
I’m very sorry, I wasn’t ignoring this. I had another family death to deal with (4 this year) and it was a bit much.

Jacob, yes that would be ok, how would it work?

Sam, I think I’ll come back to the conversation when things have settled down a bit, it got a bit much with stuff in general. I do actually have selective mutism and am attempting to do sign to still be able to communicate when that happens so maybe to finding ways of non verbal communication is just a thing I need to do in general anyway.

[Jacob]

Oh no! And that's completely alright. One death in the family can be a lot, so if you're on your on your fourth this year I can imagine replying here would easily get lost in the shuffle. Conversations like the ones we've been having here can be overwhelming by themselves. Anyway, it is nice to see you back!

A referral would usually work is this:

I would send you a "Hello this is Jacob from Scarleteen" message via the email address you used to register here.

Over email we would decide between a couple of options around how to make the connection. Like, whether you'd want to email the therapist first, or for me to go give them your email so they can contact you.

Once I have given you the therapist's contact details, or have given them yours, I can step away. And you guys can talk about availability, accessibility needs and preferences for an initial call (which is usually around 15-30 minutes but it depends). When that's booked in, you can wait for the date to come up and meet for the first time.

I usually write down a few questions and fears I have about therapy in the run up to meeting a new therapist, as it really is a good time to be direct about those and see how the therapist answers.

That initial call, with those questions, would be the place to find out whether you'd be compatible as client and therapist, and get some insight around what therapy would look like, how art-making would fit in and what you'd like to do next, whether that's indeed agreeing start art therapy, getting support in some other capacity or being pointed towards some other resources for self-directed work around recovery, whatever they may be.

That might also be a good time to talk about what sort of discounts and adjustments they can offer to make therapy affordable.

After that, you'll probably agree some "thinking it over time" before either deciding to go ahead, or seeking something else.

It can be good to book in some aftercare for yourself after any therapy or pre-therapy call, whatever might be a good relaxing activity for you.

But yeah after that, who knows! If you continue with them, you can go where the therapy takes you. It'd be great to hear how you're getting on, but completely optional. If it doesn't feel right, or not right right now, that's cool too.

[S88]

Hi Jacob,

Yeah it’s a juggle. If I also mention the phrase PIP renewal I’m sure you will have heard the stories enough to know the amazing joy that brings (in case it’s unclear from text amazing joy is very sarcastic).

Yes I’m ok for you to send me that email and proceed from there.

Out of curiosity would it be appropriate to ask if they do any work under NHS patient choice referrals? I have a GP who’s sympathetic to some things whom I might be able to ask it of if it’s a way in.

[Jacob]

Oh the woes of PIP.

Cool I'll email you today!

I don't think many mental health practitioners qualify unfortunately but in my experience it is still useful to tell your GP what you've accessed and to get it on your medical record, to help avoid "We can't offer you Y, if you haven't tried X" gatekeeping further down the line. I could complain all day about how broken our system is, especially around mental health, but I digress!

[Jacob]

OK, email sent. I thought I'd let you know here, just in case it ends up in junk/spam.

[S88]

Hi Jacob,
Got your email, sent you a reply in case yours also ends up the same.
I also sent one to the art therapist as well. Thank you

[Jacob]

Seen it! Plus, no problem at all, and well done for reaching out already!