Still Insecure

[Idk6156]

Hello, yall might remember me. I posted a while back about being insecure about sex because in the three years I’ve been with my girlfriend she’s never finished. She’ll say it doesn’t matter, that she’s satisfied, that I’m just as good as when she masturbates (she finishes from that), other assurances etc. However, despite whatever she says, in my heart I still feel insecure, unconfident about my ability to please and satisfy. I still think that if the vibrator gets her off or feels physically better what’s the point of me. I’ve been told a lot about how she may like it for the emotional connection but that’s not quite what I’m going for. I want her to crave the physical sensation from sex how I do, but how can she when it is wholly inadequate compared to her vibrator. I still feel very insecure in bed but I try to play it off. The other issues regarding non sexual intimacy have been fixed it’s just this one thing that still bothers me.

[Heather]

Hey there, I do remember you. I'm so sorry you're still feeling insecure, but I'm glad you came back for more help and support.

Am I understanding that your partner does enjoy the sex you have physically so long as a vibrator is added to the mix, but that the vibrator being there makes you feel like you don't need to be?

If that sounds right, can you say some more about *how* you two are making the vibrator part of the sex you have? In other words, does the vibrator being involved mean things like that it is part of what you do, not all, maybe that you get turns being the one to hold and use it, and you're still engaging in things together that feel...well, together? Or is it more like she's masturbating alone and you're just in the room?

[Idk6156]

Well she enjoys it even without. The vibrator during sex was actually an addition I asked for in the hopes that it would help her finish. In fact, when I ask if she wants to use it she often says no/“im good”

[Idk6156]

I think I touched upon this in my first post but she has never complained or said anything that might point to her being dissatisfied with our sex life. Even when she told me that she had never finished before it was not in a way that one would bring up something that they had issue with more like she was stating a fun fact. It is me who is insecure and feeling uncomfortable with our sex life because she hasn’t finished. Anytime I ask she says she is satisfied or that she’s “good” afterwards, and if I try to do stuff that I think might help her to cum she dismisses it. However I think she’s dismissive because I’m not good at these other things but how am I to get better if I don’t try

[Sofi]

Hi Idk6156, glad to see you back. I'm sorry you're still feeling insecure about all this.

To be honest, there's not too much more I can say that wasn't already said by other folks in your last thread, but I'll try to give you my advice. When you say "what's the point of me", this assumes that the only point of a sexual encounter is to orgasm/the only point of her dating you is to orgasm. You're her partner not because you can make her orgasm, she has sex with you because you're her partner--a human being, which is of course going to be different than a vibrator in many ways. I understand you're struggling to see your value outside of this, but that's something you really should work on, because it might end up affecting other aspects of your relationship if you don't see your worth or value to her.

It seems from what you've said that she is enjoying having sex with you regardless, and this is something you're in your head about more than she is. If you're still constantly bringing it up to her, despite her saying it's okay, this could also be adding pressure for her. Remember our main sex organ is our brain, and when we add pressure to ourselves to orgasm, it only makes it harder. It's also not uncommon for this to happen: 75% of people with penises but only 29% of people with vaginas always have orgasms with their partner (Laumann, Gagnon, Michael, Michaels, 1994). I could go into a bit more of why that is, if you'd like.

I think it would be good for you to give this piece a read: Sexual Response & Orgasm: A Users Guide
Putting too much emphasis on the orgasm often just takes away from the experience. As you see from that article, there's a lot more to sex (solo or partnered) and it absolutely is possible to still enjoy sex without reaching orgasm. It's simply not the only important part of sex. Let me know if you have any followup questions about that article!

Last thing I'll say for now, cause I know that was a lot, is that I highly suggest sitting down with her and going through our Yes, No, Maybe So: A Sexual Inventory Stocklist and discussing what you both like, don't like, etc. Perhaps there are things you can try that you haven't yet, or things you're doing that she doesn't particularly enjoy. It's always good to have this kind of open dialogue about sex with our partner, and it helps us get to know them better in that way (everyone has different preferences and what works with one person might not with the next).

How do you feel about bringing this up to her?

[Idk6156]

I mean I can reconcile my sexual inadequacy with me being a good partner. I have good traits and such that I believe make me a good life partner just not a good partner in bed. I see my worth as a boyfriend just not as someone to have sex with. Is the end goal of sex not pleasure, and if I cannot provide that what’s to stop her from just not wanting to have sex? I ge the emotional intimacy aspect but that too is just an aspect. I want to provide her with the full thing, the closeness and the physical release because both are equally important, but sadly you may be right. Not much more to say I guess. Also I don’t bring it up to her anymore and haven’t done so since before my last thread so I’ve kinda just been dealing with these feelings on my own, cuz as you said it’s a mental game and I don’t want to mess up her orgasm by stressing her out with my feelings.

[Heather]

You know, I wonder if instead of talking about what she says when you ask her about it, you could say a little more about the experiences you two actually have together: the way you experience the kinds of sex you share and the way you observe she does.

In other words: how is the experience of sex with her for you? Do you feel satisfied, including feeling things like joy and connection and pleasure with how both of you are experiencing things? When you're being sexual with her, do you feel secure, or no? Does sex between you feel like it's mutually exciting, like it's a place you're really connecting, like it's a place you both really like to be? Is it a place where you feel a lot of curiosity, where you two feel able to experiment, to communicate well during the time you are sexual together?

Relatedly: how is the rest of your relationship? Are things actually great, and well connected, intimate, close, feeling safe and secure, in the rest of your relationship between you? Do you deeply enjoy being in this relationship on the whole and feel good in it?

[Heather]

One more thing: do you know if she masturbates on her own, and if so, what that's like for her? Does she enjoy that and feel very satisfied with that? While orgasm isn't something everyone needs to feel satisfied (you're very focused on that, so it might be worth reminding yourself that orgasm isn't what = "finished" for everyone -- for some folks, they can feel finished without, and for others, orgasm isn't even the thing that makes them feel finished), just out of curiosity, is she reaching orgasm alone?

[Idk6156]

Yes she does finish on her own and relatively quickly. Honestly if she couldn’t on her own I’d feel a bit better since then it could just be written off as an issue with her. And yes our relationship is great none of the issues I mentioned in the other thread are present anymore we communicate freely about other topics and I really enjoy the sex we have together. It feels great, I’m really turned on by her, and during the act I wouldn’t say I feel secure it’s more like I’m just not thinking about anything besides the fact that we’re having sex. The insecurity comes before and after the act not during.

[Idk6156]

Ps. Sorry if I’m difficult to help.

[Heather]

We're not finding you difficult: we're here to help, so you certainly don't need to apologize for seeking it!

You know, much like Sofi talked about, it sounds to me like some of what might be happening here is that you have your own metric for what equals sexual enjoyment for you, and for you, orgasm is integral. And it sounds like you are projecting that unto her, even though she's a different person than you (and not just because of her gender, either: that isn't the big important difference you're assuming it is, just like all men don't have the same metrics for satisfaction you do) and even though it sounds like she is both telling you AND showing you that she enjoys being with you.

I think that you're going to be best served by trying to let go of how invested you are in her orgasms. I think once you do, they're more likely to happen with you -- including because it's really easy to feel that kind of pressure in the room when you're sexual with someone you know really, really wants you to come -- but that you're both going to be much more likely to feel good before, during and after the sex you have.

I also want to add this: when a toy is in the room, it is only a replacement for a person if the people involved make it one. Sex toys, when couples use them to their best capacities, aren't replacements so much as extensions: they can do things our bodies can't, or might tired more easily by, or when we want our bodies to be doing something else. If you really incorporate them into the sex you have -- like by you using it with her, for example, in concert with other activity, like a vibrator doing one thing, your other hand another, or a vibrator paired with intercourse, just as two examples, but also by using it as a helper, like lube is, or a well-paced pillow -- I think you'll be able to start feeling differently about it.

One more thing: the person I keep hearing say that you are inadequate is you. I don't hear that she has daid that, and we certainly aren't saying that, either. Ultimately, I'd bet that an orgasm isn't going to fix this for you because the problem isn't her lack of orgasms or a vibrator, it's the way you are thinking about yourself. In other words, I think the change that needs to happen to solve for this is a change of your own mind, you know?

[Idk6156]

I get what you’re saying. If I change my mindset I’ll feel better and she’ll be likely to orgasm too since she’ll be able to tell I’m not quite so invested in her orgasm? I haven’t brought up the topic in a long time so I had hoped that would be enough to take the pressure off her but maybe a change in mindset is needed. But the thing is I don’t know how.

[Idk6156]

Also could you expound on the extension thing? I’ve heard people say that toys are friends and not competition and all that but could you perhaps put it into words I’m more likely to understand? I see what you’re going for the message just isn’t quite hitting home if you get me.

[Heather]

Sure, I can try. I do want to say first that whether it results in orgasm for her or not, I think you doing what you can to stop being so attached to that is beneficial for you both. Focusing on pleasure (remember, orgasm is just a few seconds, but the overall experience/s of pleasure can last for HOURS if y'all want) and connection is really the way to go. It might also help to remember that orgasm is also only an involuntary nervous system response. It's not something someone else can *make* a person or their body do, because it's involuntary, but it's also not even in your body, it's in theirs. Loading so much on to something that, when it's just one, lasts just a few seconds and that is the body's equivalent of a pleasure hiccup doesn't really make sense, if you really think about it.

Per the toy and how you think about toys, what about lubrication? Do you use it when you masturbate or have sex with your partner? If so, surely you recognize that something that already can feel good only winds up feeling better because of this thing you're adding to it that helps facilitate feeling good?

What about condiments and sauces on food? Are you someone who has has the experience of having food that's good, but having a sauce or condiment that just elevates it to something else entirely? If so, can you recognize that that doesn't have to be about the initial food being inferior by itself so much as the sauce being great and adding greatness to make the already-good food even better?

I wonder if it might also help to read up on this piece, which I was reminded of by another user the other day: https://www.scarleteen.com/read/sex-sex ... e-good-bed It sounds like you have this notion in your head of what it means to be a good lover that not only are you unable to meet, but that isn't even in alignment with what we know about what most people discover over time a good lover really is (hint: it has very little to do with orgasms).

Take a look, and see if it adds anything to all this for you?

[Idk6156]

So I read the article and yeah I think a lot of it has to do with what it discussed. While I do enjoy sex with my gf cuz it feels good and is certainly much better than by myself, I do find myself thinking about being good in “those ways” and prioritizing making her feel good. Meanwhile since I didn’t want to keep bugging her about the topic I haven’t said anything to her at all for months. Nothing I can really do now to talk to her though since she’s on vacation.

[Heather]

So, if by not talking about it for three months you mean not talking about the sex you're having at all, I don't think that's ever a good idea in a sexual relationship. If that is what you mean, we should talk about that.

But if you mean that you have read that article, and thin k you should talk with your partner about it, I'd be curious to hear more about that. I actually gave you that and have said what I have been saying with the intention of you working on yourself by and for yourself in these ways. Like I said, I think the real issue here is how you feel about *yourself* and that's not something a partner can change, or even work to do with a partner. That's something that'll be rooted in you working on you, either on your own, or with the help of someone like a therapist.

[Idk6156]

How do I start working on my own? I kinda don’t even know where to start and a therapist is kinda way outta my budget

[HannahP]

Hi there Idk!

I can't speak for what Heather meant by working on your own, but personally, I am a big fan of writing/journaling when I'm trying to work through my feelings about something. If writing doesn't sound like a good fit for you, you could also try talking out loud and recording it, maybe even using a voice to text app. And of course you can talk through it with us as well!

As for where to get started, something that I do is that I just journal/talk freely about whatever comes to mind about the topic in question. You might want to start with what you wrote to us: "While I do enjoy sex with my gf cuz it feels good and is certainly much better than by myself, I do find myself thinking about being good in “those ways” and prioritizing making her feel good." That's a great summary of something you've identified in yourself! Then you could just keep going, talking about how that sentence makes you feel or any other thoughts you have along those lines. I find that doing this really helps me make connections and work through things I'm not sure about.

Another approach could be to take a Scarleteen article, like the one about good sex that you just read, or rereading any of the responses that our team has written to you. As you read, you could pay attention to which ideas feel true and persuasive to you, which ones you WANT to believe but have a hard time believing, and which ones you don't really agree with. Then you could come back to us and say "I'm struggling to understand this concept" or like you said above, "I see what you’re going for the message just isn’t quite hitting home if you get me." Then we can talk it through together.

How does that sound?

[Idk6156]

I think a big issue is that I simply cannot understand her point of view, and my girl is not much of a talker so trying to get in her head and understand how she thinks is rather difficult.

I’ve been taught my whole life that you should make sure your partner is satisfied during sex. I’ve been told that means getting your partner off. Otherwise you’re a selfish and incompetent lover worthy of ridicule. I remember I made a comment with friends and they jokingly said that after three years I couldn’t find the clit. They know nothing of the situation, it was only a joke, but it hit too close to home because I WAS incompetent.

She even admits to harboring these sentiments previously, but apparently our relationship had given her newfound insight, now that she was in a situation like that she says she wouldn’t make fun of people like that anymore, but I can’t help but think that is untrue. I can’t help but thinking that she’s lying in order to spare my feelings, that she only puts up with intimacy with me for my sake, and not of her own desire to do so. I know how easy it is to fake reactions, I’ve seen that one movie with the lady in the sandwich shop is anyone knows it.

I can’t understand how she could enjoy it without that release at the end, how emotional connection could make the physical experience any better when you can’t get off. Everyone says that I shouldn’t place so much emphasis on her orgasm but without it how do I know that I did a good job? That having sex with me is actually worth doing when you have a vibrator right there that can sate her desires without me. I wish I could sate those desires but I’m pitifully incapable. I wish I could believe you guys and her when you say that she enjoys it and that orgasm isn’t the end all be all, but if not, why would people be so fixated upon it?

Why then would my ex girlfriend brag about how much better her previous boyfriend was while with me. I can’t understand why when I try things that could help my girl get off like using a vibrator she says no, or trying to find her clit to stimulate it because I know she needs that, she pushes my hand away and says to go back to fingering her.
Am I just bad at those things so she’d rather just settle for what feels decent? Am I that pathetic? What is so great about sex with me that she still continues to do so, or why does she settle when I’m so eager to do better? I don’t understand any of it.

It’s all so confusing and the answers I get that orgasm is merely a pleasure hiccup, if so why is it so stressed for a man to make sure his woman gets off? If emotional closeness and all that is such a draw then why do I feel unsatisfied when I don’t cum (not that I make an issue out of it I’d just stay quiet). Is that what she is doing? Keeping quiet about her dissatisfaction in order to spare me?

It’s all so confusing and if anyone has any answers put into my language, simple enough that an idiot could understand, I’d be unfathomably appreciative. You’re all so kind and I thank you all for listening to my yap.

[Heather]

Hey there, can you please go back to your post and put some paragraph breaks in so it's not a giant wall of text? My specific neurology doesn't play nice with posting like that, so it makes it very difficult for me to read through all of what you're saying here.

I do also suspect you posted that wall because you're spinning out about this -- in what I can read, I'm seeing you still using self-depreciating language and going right back to some things that we have already talked through like we didn't talk about them. So, on top of also adding paragraph breaks so that we can even read this, I'm going to suggest that when you post here, you try and be sure you're breathing, and that you're in a semi-good headspace, okay?

[Idk6156]

Apologies, I think I’m just blurting out the thoughts as they come to me. I thought better to analyze them that way.

[Idk6156]

I realize some stuff in there is repetitive and we’ve talked about it but I included it in there sort of like Hannah said as the parts that I couldn’t quite understand. Like does connection and such actually magnify the experience that much more? Does it make the sensations that much more pleasurable? If she were to let me use the vibrator on her, would those things make the experience feel that much better than if she did so on her own? That’s basically the underlying questions underneath all that self deprecation. I apologize if it’s a little depressing or repetitive to read my posts. Perhaps answers in a as I put it “ manner even an idiot could understand” would help me.

Ps. If more paragraph breaks are needed for the text wall I will gladly add more. I feel bad enough that you nice folk have to to read through my ramblings. The least I can do is make them more palatable. Also would it be more constructive to prune the bits we’ve already discussed?

[Heather]

That helps a lot, thank you.

I do want to talk a bit first about ruminating, which you're clearly doing. Here's a good explanation of what it is and some tips to help you with it: https://www.healthline.com/health/how-t ... ruminating

Because I want you to stop ruminating, instead of enabling it -- because all it does is make you miserable, and I sure don't want that! -- for now, I'm going to focus on things we haven't talked about so much, or exactly, or haven't answered in this context, and things I think are most likely to actually help you out. I'm also going to ask you, moving forward, when you're posting here to try real hard not to use self-disparaging language, and if and when you do, to edit it out. Putting yourself down is another thing that is only going to keep you stuck and do you emotional harm instead of helping you.

I hear you saying that if you don't reach orgasm, you don't feel like sex is rewarding for you, and that you don't enjoy sex. Can I check in that that's right? And that you really mean that? In other words, are you saying that everything else besides orgasm sexually is not enjoyable for you? That orgasm is the only thing in sex -- yours or a partners -- that brings you joy, where you experience pleasure, and that satisfies you? Relatedly: do YOU feel connected to your partner emotionally during sex when it comes to your own body and sexual response, or no? Or do you feel the same having sex with a partner as masturbating? I need to know more about that to say more about what you're asking in regard to how she can possibly enjoy herself without orgasm.

I will say this: the way we know if a partner is enjoying themselves is twofold: we can know because of what they communicate to us in words when we talk about it, and we can know because of how people express pleasure otherwise, like with the sounds they make, the look on their face, their asking for more of something they like, and from things the body tends to do when aroused, like flushing, like erections (clits get erections too), heavier breathing, etc. An orgasm actually doesn't even accurately tell us if someone is experiencing pleasure because, like I explained, it's mostly an involuntary response to stimulus. For example, some people orgasm during rape when they are very much NOT enjoying themselves at all and when they are feeling scared and otherwise terrible. Orgasm isn't a reliable indicator of overall sexual satisfaction just like a burp isn't a reliable indicator someone enjoyed a meal.

[Idk6156]

What I meant by that comment is that if I don’t orgasm during sex I don’t feel satisfied at the end. I’m still horny and sorta pent up. I still enjoyed it but less so than if I had finished and had gotten that release. I fear that her body is the same way and she’s unsatisfied when we’re done which is usually after I finish. It feels almost selfish at the end for me when I get to finish and she doesn't. However, I do still enjoy doing those things with her even if the end result leaves me feeling unsatisfied I still enjoyed being with her, but if I were to flip it I don’t think I could be satisfied with her feeling the same way.

TLDR: it’s an enjoyable experience even if an incomplete one

[Heather]

Okay, that helps.

Here's what I'd say about that: I think something you're not accounting for is that this is a place where both people and experience varies.

In other words, some people are going to feel more like you, where without an orgasm, even if they enjoy the rest of the sexual experience they are having, they don't feel like they got what they were after with sex and feel, like you say, incomplete. Other people don't feel that way, and then, of course, there are varying degrees in between these two poles.

The experience itself will also create these variances. Sometimes, for instance, even for people like yourself, a given sexual experience is so great all around that that orgasm matters less. And sometimes for someone for whom orgasm doesn't matter much, if the whole of their sexual experience also isn't so great, they still won't feel satisfied even if they have the capacity to feel satisfied without orgasm. Can you follow both of the things I just said?

I strongly suspect that neither of you are having particularly off-the-charts sexual experiences with each other, to be perfectly frank. It sounds like there is a lot of tension in and around the sexual relationship. You're very clear you feel really insecure and pretty constantly worried about your partner's experience and satisfaction. It sounds like you have been at odds a lot, with you being very focused on orgasm and her not wanting to have that level of focus on it. It also sounds like your girlfriend hasn't been particularly helpful around some of this: telling one partner an ex was "better" is honestly a really shitty thing to say and not something we're going to tell a partner whose sexual confidence we want to support (or who we care deeply about, if you ask me). You're also both really young: did you know the mean age people are when they have what they consider their peak sexual experiences is around 50? Sex is like anything else in life: it tends to take practice and time for it to turn into something really awesome. Communication between you two, at least in this area of your relationship, also sounds completely broken down. I'm actually not surprised you're feeling how you are because so far pretty much none of this relationship sounds like a good sexual relationship for either of you to me, and that assessment isn't about her having orgasms or not: it's about that this whole thing just sounds like you have both -- especially you -- been really disconnected, tense, at odds and unhappy.

Let's start there before I dig any deeper. I know that was a lot by itself and some of that frankness may not be great to hear. Can you let me know if that last paragraph sounds accurate? And if you understood the first few things I said before that?