Not being taken seriously

[Dia]

So I've "come out" to my mom on several occasions but she didn't take it seriously. She thinks because I've never been in a relationship I can't decide who I'm attracted to. She says how I can't be sure or how I don't want to put myself in a box of I don't know for sure.

I always come out as bisexual despite identifying as Pansexual because bisexuality is easier to explain (also I did identify as bisexual until I found out pansexuality was a thing).

I'm just asking myself whether or not she's right and if I shouldn't identify as pan or bi until I've been in a relationship or if I should just identify how I want and if that's the case how can I get her to understand it?

[Heather]

Welcome to the boards, Dia.

I'm so sorry to hear about how your mother has responded when you've come out to her. I'm also sorry to hear that it sounds like she's responding in ways she wouldn't if you had told her you were straight: probably she wouldn't have said, for instance, that you couldn't know you were because you haven't had any relationship experience.

Sexual orientation is one of those things that's mostly about feelings, not actions. In other words, people can, and most often do, have a sense -- and sometimes a very strong one -- of who they are and aren't attracted to without having sex with anyone or even dating. And again, very few people apply these kinds of standards to heterosexuality -- suggesting it needs be "proven" by dating or sex -- but only selectively apply them to other orientations.

By all means, if and when we do start dating, have sexual or romantic relationships, and gather more and more life experience as a whole, in this arena and others, we will tend to kind of test the hypothesis, as it were, of our feelings, and see how we feel once we put some or all of them into action. But really, that's more a validation process than anything else, not something anyone needs to do to know to whom they're attracted. Kind of like how if someone keeps saying they want to be a doctor when they grow up, it's not like they can't know they have that interest until they go to medical school: we will, as people, tend to accept that person knows their own feelings and their own mind, accept that want is part of their identity at the time they're saying it is, and leave it to them to find out over time, in whatever time they want to, if it is something they want to do, and how they feel about it once they start engaging in the pursuit of that actively.

Again, our feelings -- I mean, most of us can see or be around someone we're attracted to and know our hubba-hubaa feelings are hubba-hubba feelings without dating or touching that person, and it's those feelings that tend to make us inclined to pursue those things, when we do, in the first place! -- are what orientation is mostly about.

Does that make sense?

If you'd like some help with figuring out and presenting some basic boundaries and things you can ask of your Mom with this -- like that you'd like to ask her to just accept you without asking you to "prove" it with sex or dating, or ask her not to employ any double standards she might be putting into play (again, would she say heterosexuality is a "box?" -- I'd be happy to do that with you.

[Dia]

Yeah, that'd be helpful, I'm kinda desperate. Every time I try to bring up the subject it turns into an argument and she says I don't respect her judgement... anything would help

[Heather]

Can you paint me a picture of your mother's general attitudes -- ones about everyone, not just you -- when it comes to sexual orientation? What's her, what are her ideas about her own and those of others, how is she with queer identities overall, etc?

How about what your relationship with her is like in general, too?

Knowing that stuff would help me figure out some approaches to suggest to you that could be a good fit.

[Dia]

Her policy on lgbt+ people in general is don't ask don't tell, she's had people in her past who have been close friends and also homosexual but she wasn't super supportive (like when one had issues with his partner she didn't offer any help). She is a Christian and very "by the book"(although when going through the bible myself I showed her that nowhere does it flat out say homosexuality is a no go and she seemed to understand) she also got a bit defensive when my counsellor suggest I go to the lgbt youth thing in my city.

As for our relationship it's very open and caring. We share a ton of stuff with each other and I usually have no trouble going to her with questions about relationships and sex in general. The exception being this topic. There's hasnt been a dad in the picture for 12 years, while he was around he was abusive. My mom actually blames my sexuality in part to him as I never had a positive parental male relationship growing up (it might be true but I kinda can't change it...)

Wow that's a lot of text, I hope that's enough

[Sam W]

Hi Dia,

I hope you don't mind my chiming in. I want to give you a long distance high five for that conversation with your mom about the bible, that was pretty gutsy! Since it sounds like your mom's faith is important to her (and is how she understands the world), do you think she'd be open to some readings from christian groups that are pro-LGBT?

Did you end up getting to go to LGBT youth thing? It sounds like that's something you're interested in, and would likely be fun and affirming to do.

[Heather]

So, it sounds like the long story short is that she's not very accepting of LGBT, but she IS generally accepting of you and caring with you. That usually means there's a good foundation for someone to gradually grow and change when it comes to becoming more accepting of someone LGBT. It just may take some time.

I think Sam's suggestion was a good one, if you think she'd be open to it. If you have any local PFLAG meetings, that might be something else you could ask her about going to alone or with you.

But for now, I'm thinking that just asking her if she could try and accept what you're saying you know about yourself without argument -- and the given that she gets to think about it and feel about it whatever she does, you're just asking her to please keep your feelings in mind and accept you regardless is a way to go.

You might also gently ask her if she could compare any standard she's holding you or others to who are LGBT to her ideas about people who are straight or cisgender and make sure it's fair. For instance, if someone straight doesn't have to prove they're straight with sex or dating, why would someone queer have to? If someone straight didn't have a Dad around, why wouldn't she think that's why they're straight? (For the record, not having a Dad around isn't why someone is queer: people are queer who had Dads around, people are queer who didn't: this isn't something that has any basis in sexual orientation.)

Too, it sounds like it might be of use to tell her how her lack of acceptance makes you feel, because it sounds like she cares about you and your feelings. Telling her how her not accepting this part of you and what you're telling her makes you feel -- that it's hurtful, that it makes you feel unsupported: however it is that it makes you feel -- might help when it comes to getting her to start considering her behaviour with all of this, and the impact of her nonacceptance. Make sense?

[Heather]

Also, your counselor: can you ask them about perhaps having a session where your mother is there so they can work with both of you around acceptance, as well as with getting some boundaries set with all of this (like your Mom not telling you you aren't a thing when you strongly feel that you are, a thing that's something someone else can't tell us we are or aren't)?

[Dia]

I don't know if we even have any pro-lgbt Christian stuff here. My city is just starting to get more accepting to lgbt folk and the churches are not there yet. If we do I haven't found any.

And no, my mom didn't want me going so I didn't end up going and I haven't seen that counsellor since...

[Heather]

Oh man, I'm so sorry. Can you see that counselor again, or is your Mom not letting you see them again?

There's a LOT of LGBT organizing and groups in BC. If you want us to look locally for you, I'd be happy to do that, I'd just need to have a batter idea about where in BC you are.

[Dia]

The counsellor thing is because of my mom but only because she thinks she's not focusing enough on why I'm there (abuse and how it's affected me) she's trying to get me to see a counsellor that she knows personally (which I'm kinda iffy about, I was actually going to ask about this situation in another thread)

I live in kelowna so if you could help that'd be pretty good

[Heather]

Just so you know, a good counselor who had any kind of pre-existing relationships with a parent -- as a friend, co-worker, etc. -- would NOT accept that parent's child as a patient, because they would recognize both their possible bias and how that would be very unlikely to result in their patient feeling able to trust them. Instead, they'd offer to give that parent a referral of counselors THEY like and think are good, who do NOT know the parent.

So, I'd say that any counselor that said yes to that -- rather than no, with or without a referral -- would be someone to be wary of. Hopefully any of your mother's friends who are counselors will tell her that if she goes to them. They hopefully would also tell her that it's possible that she may be looking to control your counseling by doing that, which isn't appropriate for a parent to do. Counseling for you is supposed to be about you and your own identity process and your needs, not about what a parent wants you to think, feel or be or what a parent's own wants or needs, for themselves, may be.

Not sure what she means about HER focus with your counseling, unless you mean that's someone you see together as a family. If so, then OH NO WAY should a counselor who she knows be taking you on as a family client. That's a hard-line ethical no-no for most counselors (and all good ones, IMO), and a big one, at that. That simply would not allow for neutral ground for family counseling, a big part of the point, and potential benefit, of that kind of counseling.

I'll take a look around that area for resources for you tomorrow.

[Dia]

Update time

I told my mom to just except that I know my own feelings and she's finally not fought me on it. She's still a tad unwelcomeing to the idea. She said she's just scared that I'll loose my leadership positions in my church if I tell everyone. So yeah

Did you ever find any resources for my mom and I?

[Heather]

I'm sorry that rather than supporting you in the event your church discriminated against you -- like saying she'd have your back -- she's going the route she is, but I AM glad you were able to stand up for yourself like that and that she is not pushing back so hard on you.

Here's what I have found for you so far, and just let me know how those look to you, or, if you contact them and they aren't what you need and can't refer you to what you do need, you need me to hunt some more:
• http://okanaganpride.com/youth/
• https://kelowna.cioc.ca/record/KNA1227 -- PFLAG, if your mother were willing to participate, would likely be the kind of group most able to help here, since the primary issue at hand is your parent being unsupportive and unaccepting
• https://therapists.psychologytoday.com/ ... C&spec=268 (This is a list of LGBTQ-friendly therapists, and David Hersh, in that list, is someone in my own professional and social networks, so if you told him Scarleteen referred you and what you were looking for, he'd likely be able to help extra)