Scarleteen

Intro
Hello Scarleteen! I've browsed the site at various points, but I've finally got an account. Unfortunately, the reason is because of a complicated situation...
Me
I'm pretty privileged, as far as things go. I'm an upper-middle class white ciswoman with a supportive family. I'm in my fourth year of a five-year college program. I've never dated, and I've had some crushes, but nothing ever developed (which was good, because in my mid-teens I internalized some toxic messages about relationships).
My issues
That's a horribly ableist (internally ableist) way to put this, unfortunately! I have ADHD and suffer from chronic anxiety. I've also dealt with depression in the past. Despite this, I've never experienced suicidal idealation. I wouldn't mention this except for the topic at hand.
How we met
I met Sam (not his real name) in my second year of college, at a meeting for the Catholic group on campus. I was already friendly with the members, so I assumed he was a freshman and new to the group. He wasn't, being a year ahead of me, but it seemed like he wasn't around much. He seemed like a nice person. A comment he made implied that he had gone through mental health issues in the past, including suicidal thoughts.
Hanging out
I didn't really see Sam again until August 2015. We hung out at a trip to Hershey Park! I sat next to him on the first ride, which was a vaguely scary roller coaster, haha. Our group walked to an alcohol distributor a mile or so from the park. I was the only one under twenty-one at the time, so I didn't drink. He revealed that he struggled with alcoholism, so he didn't order anything. He drove me and a religious brother who came on a trip with us back to campus (I commute, but my mom met me there). On the long ride back, I learned a lot about his interests in astrophysics, philosophy, and music. It soon became clear that his background was very different from mine.
Last fall
This is where the trouble started. (I realized that these headers are redundant, but this is helping me organize my thoughts )
Birthday
Since we got along pretty well at Hershey Park, I invited Sam on Facebook to my twenty-first birthday party. I had put out a message in our organization's GroupMe, but he doesn't have the app. He met my parents and my sister. My dad was pretty impressed that he studies physics, haha.
Oh boy
Maybe Sam had gotten the wrong idea about how I felt, because he started to text me a lot. Now, I'm not a texter. He seemed to text a lot, though, and wanted to hang out after classes at one point. I started to become concerned...Then he told me that he thought I was cute (in text; I haven't seen him in-person since my birthday party). I can't remember what I responded, but I still have the text...I do know that I talked to my mom about it.
Episode
I hoped Sam would forget about hanging out with me one-on-one, but what happened was much worse. In November or so, he had a suicidal episode and left school for the rest of the year. I think only the Faith Director of our organization knows the full details. I know he texted me specifically to let me know what's going on, but a concerned comment by a friend in the group implied that the other people don't know. They might now, I'm not sure.
In Between
We texted briefly over the seasons until the school year started again. I addressed my concerns to my mom, and she thought not to worry. He couldn't expect that, if I was interested in him romantically, I would have pined over him if we only texted every three months, right?

Wrong.
I'm running out of the emotional energy to write the rest of the timeline tonight, but the pattern's emerged again. It started up a week-and-a-half ago, with the new school year. I told him that I want to get to know him as a friend, hang out in a group. He texts me every one to three days, but I thought the boundary setting (which I did last weekend) worked. No. On Tuesday, we were having a great conversation about classes and feminism (!!!) when he said that he wished we could talk about these things in-person.

I don't want to be rude, because I don't know much about suicidal idealation and I'd never forgive myself if he hurt himself because of me. I don't know if he texts other people from the group, or if I'm his only friend (that sounds horrible to say). I don't know how to ask the Catholic group for help, or if I even should. He's not that active in the group, but I don't want to cause a schism (I'm sorry, I couldn't resist trying to relieve the tension with a joke). My mom has been giving me advice, and she's been very supportive, but she liked my idea to address this here.

So, long story short, "Sam" is triggering my anxiety because I feel that good-old pressure to be polite that dfab people are socialized to have! I could provide text messages if you need context... Any help is appreciated!

Welcome to the boards! Although I'm sorry it's a challenging situation which brought you here.

Can I start by asking, what do you want? For sure, I'm getting a sense of some things you don't want or which are making you uncomfortable, but I think it'd help both you and us to see what you do want. What kind of relationship (in the broad sense, including all kinds of social relationship), if any, do you want with Sam? What kind of contexts, if any, would you want to see him in? Do you want to communicate with him at all?

Can I also check what boundaries you set with him? You said here that you wanted to get to know him as a friend and hang out with him in group; did you ask or say anything to him about what kind of contact you'd rather not have with him (for example, asking him to text less or not at all, if that's a thing you want)?

Right out front, I want to make very, very clear that you are not responsible for trying to keep him from hurting himself. It certainly sounds like Sam has some significant personal challenges in his life, and I'd have a great deal of compassion for anyone in that situation; still, no-one ever has to have a personal relationship with someone we don't want to just so that person isn't hurt or upset. Too, super-important: no-one ever hurts themself because someone else said "I'm sorry I'd rather not date you"/"I'm sorry I'd rather not be coffee/juice friends". If someone hurts themself after hearing that, they're clearly wrestling with some serious pre-existing challenges and difficulties, and it's those things which are why they hurt themself. For sure, a romantic or personal rejection can hurt like all hell; but it is a part of life, and everyone will get them sometimes. A broadly healthy response maybe involves feeling like crap for a bit, but being able to manage those craptastic feelings without doing harm to another person or one's own self. If someone can't manage, it means they have some significant health and/or personal difficulties; it certainly doesn't mean that no-one should say "sorry, no" to them. Signifcant health and/or personal difficulties never give an automatic override of anyone else's needs or wishes. Accomodations, yes; overrides, no, all the no.

You're also not responsible for ensuring that he has other friends. It's thoughful and kind to offer an isolated/struggling person some possibilities to connect more with others; it's certainly not your (or anyone else's) responsibility to nurture those connections or to worry about the lack of them. Each person's life is their own, and heading into micro-managing territory or over-investment goes poorly for everyone involved, including the person you're concerned about.

When he's making contact with you, is he ever talking about what a rough time he's having at the moment, or how he doesn't know what he'd do without your friendship, or anything that seems related to those kinds of things? (Usually, it's better not to post whole actual messages that were intended to be private in a public forum.)

Redskies wrote:Welcome to the boards! Although I'm sorry it's a challenging situation which brought you here.

Can I start by asking, what do you want? For sure, I'm getting a sense of some things you don't want or which are making you uncomfortable, but I think it'd help both you and us to see what you do want. What kind of relationship (in the broad sense, including all kinds of social relationship), if any, do you want with Sam? What kind of contexts, if any, would you want to see him in? Do you want to communicate with him at all?

Can I also check what boundaries you set with him? You said here that you wanted to get to know him as a friend and hang out with him in group; did you ask or say anything to him about what kind of contact you'd rather not have with him (for example, asking him to text less or not at all, if that's a thing you want)?

Right out front, I want to make very, very clear that you are not responsible for trying to keep him from hurting himself. It certainly sounds like Sam has some significant personal challenges in his life, and I'd have a great deal of compassion for anyone in that situation; still, no-one ever has to have a personal relationship with someone we don't want to just so that person isn't hurt or upset. Too, super-important: no-one ever hurts themself because someone else said "I'm sorry I'd rather not date you"/"I'm sorry I'd rather not be coffee/juice friends". If someone hurts themself after hearing that, they're clearly wrestling with some serious pre-existing challenges and difficulties, and it's those things which are why they hurt themself. For sure, a romantic or personal rejection can hurt like all hell; but it is a part of life, and everyone will get them sometimes. A broadly healthy response maybe involves feeling like crap for a bit, but being able to manage those craptastic feelings without doing harm to another person or one's own self. If someone can't manage, it means they have some significant health and/or personal difficulties; it certainly doesn't mean that no-one should say "sorry, no" to them. Signifcant health and/or personal difficulties never give an automatic override of anyone else's needs or wishes. Accomodations, yes; overrides, no, all the no.

You're also not responsible for ensuring that he has other friends. It's thoughful and kind to offer an isolated/struggling person some possibilities to connect more with others; it's certainly not your (or anyone else's) responsibility to nurture those connections or to worry about the lack of them. Each person's life is their own, and heading into micro-managing territory or over-investment goes poorly for everyone involved, including the person you're concerned about.

When he's making contact with you, is he ever talking about what a rough time he's having at the moment, or how he doesn't know what he'd do without your friendship, or anything that seems related to those kinds of things? (Usually, it's better not to post whole actual messages that were intended to be private in a public forum.)

Thank you for the quick response! I read the message yesterday morning, and it was a great relief to read your response. My mom told me similar things about this not being anything I'd done wrong, but I'm glad to have another opinion.

I want to be Sam's friend, I think. Not best friend, necessarily. I like talking to him, and I'd be fine with texting every few days or so. If this situation continues as-is, though, I might not feel that way.

On the 23rd, Sam said that he was looking forward to hanging out with me, and apologized if he was being pushy, as he said he's working on not doing that. A few texts later, he said that he thought I was cool and that he'd like to hang out one-on-one. He didn't expect requited feelings, but he seemed optimistic. I didn't respond right away, and he apologized. I eventually texted him back, saying that I understand feeling socially awkward (as he felt like his text sounded robotic), that I respected that he was being honest, and that I liked talking to him. I played up feeling socially awkward a bit, and attributed that as a reason why I'd like to hang out in a group. So I didn't "reject" him, per say. Sam wrote:
"I appreciate that "
"I just don't wanna make trouble for anyone. That's not who I am anymore."
We texted a bit more that night, but nothing special.

On Sunday, he asked if I was busy. I told him about how I'm not great at responding to texts, and that I was out with my mom and sister (which was true). Sam apologized for pestering me, and I told him he didn't need to say sorry. He then asked if I wanted to make plans, so I told him I had an assignment due that night (which was also true). I suggested that I try to get a group together for this weekend.

On Tuesday, I responded to him a few hours after the initial text, and apologized. Sam accepted it, since he remembered what I said previously about not being the best texter. I told him that another factor in my late responses is that I've been spending more time with my family because of a family member's ill health (which is true, but we're optimistic)! Then he gave me condolences, and we talked a bit about classes, about how Trump is awful, and about feminism. He did talk about his anxiety issues a bit. He eventually said:
"It's fine [in regards to my brief response to a longer text by him that got deep]. There's not much to say. I just confide this in you because I feel a connection with you. I know that last sentence sounds really crazy and weird and creepy and I'm sorry"
So I said "No, please don't say that. It's normal for friends to understand each other, right?'
He responded "I think so. But I put people off without meaning to a lot." He then said "I'd really like to hang with you so we can have a more fluid conversation together.

Okay, that was pushing a boundary, so I didn't respond. I talked to my mom the next night, since he texted me during class. She agreed that there was some boundary issues going on. I sent him a brief message, saying I was busy with schoolwork and that I was hanging out with my mom.

Yesterday, he wished me a happy Friday, and I talked to my mom about what to say, but I forgot to respond. Then Sam texted me good morning today. I said:
"Hey!
I'm afraid I didn't get anything together for this weekend with the gang from [redacted]. I've been busier than I expected with classes."
While I started on this post, he responded:
"That's fine! Would you be willing to just meet up with me, if you have the time? It's a lot easier to organize, lol."
THEN, as I was typing that last sentence, hs aid "I don't think that conveyed the connotation I wanted lol I'm sorry"
I had to talk to my mom about something different, so I asked her the best response (I have been responding to many of his texts "on my own," but she's really been helping me with this situation; I don't want to put too much on her, though). I said:
"Where I am socially is just having friends. That's why i suggested hanging out in a group."

Whew! That section of the post took awhile. Anyway, like I said, it's a big relief to hear that I'm not responsible for keeping him from hurting himself or for ensuring that he has friends. I knew that intellectually, but it's something different to hear that.

...He just responded. "I meant as friends. I'm sorry I didn't make that clear."

I don't even know what to think anymore!

That's a bit better with what you want!

Any time we're struggling to give enough weight to or really honour our own wishes, I think it helps to set the bar a lot higher. What if being "fine" with something wasn't enough? What if you're looking for something that makes you feel really good, something that makes you and your life feel brighter, warmer, broader, better? Does being friends in group with Sam, and texting occasionally with Sam, meet that bar for you? I think especially when someone else wants something more than we do, and we know we're inclined to want to make them happy, it's usually wise and healthy to take that higher standard for what we want, rather than simply being willing to go along with something.

I'm still not clear on whether you said to him that you don't want to be so close or for him to text you so often. It''s sounding as if you haven't, but if you have, then certainly, him asking for and doing things that you've said you don't want would be very out of line, waaay boundary-crossing and disrespectful.

Here's what you've shared with us that you've said to him:
- you like talking to him
- you're socially awkward
- you want to hang out with him in group
- you're not great at responding to texts
- you had an assignment to do
- you have some family commitments and an ill family member
- you were doing schoolwork and hanging out with your mom
- you want just friends

Does that seem right, or is there something missing?

I feel like it's important to have that clearer in order to advise you best.

I'm understanding that he's expressing romantic interest in you, and that you don't feel the same and don't want him to express that kind of interest. Do I have that right? Is that also affecting how much contact you want with him, or do you just not want to see him often, regardless of anyone's romantic feelings?