My crush didn’t show up for a video chat ... now what to do.

[Sam W]

I'm glad you're continuing to look for a counselor that can work with you. If you're working with your college, it may also help to check out what general resources their mental health center has for managing things like anxiety. They may also have some tools or resources they can refer you to for managing those feelings of perfectionism.

[Sabine]

I did. Calling them or texting in Austria can be quite tricky! Also, I do need some searching for a psychologist because I had a really hard night and morning in terms of my crush and the process of letting go and getting into crushes on the app.

I have to let her go! I really do. My parents say that she’s bot going to respond to me or at least not in the same way as I do (I would be happy with just friends, but ...). I don’t believe that is entirely true, that she won’t respond ever, as there are people who don’t respond on the app for weeks and months at a time and come back (this also applies to Instagram too). But I want to believe with my parents to keep peace and also to move forward with my mental health.

But, how do I move forward with this crush? Like let her go entirely until she responds otherwise? I know people on the app who don’t respond for months on end as well. My mom and I think its a good idea to take a break from (maybe log out of) the app as well. Because she said that I get so passionate about someone I never video chatted with nor seen their face nor talked with. She’s right and sometime’s it does effect me greatly.

I have also been thinking about her suggestions. For some reason, I don’t want to go out to social outings in Vienna either through Gay Clubs like Villa Vida or Fat and Sugar or my mom’s club, the Americans Women Association. Or talk to the lesbian couple I befriended, but I really don’t feel like the energy or the mentality. I really want to be social, but for some reason, I don’t want them to get hurt. For some reason, I need to let go of only focusing my time of making relationships/friendships in the US as one day I will certainly return there. Mom said the app served a purpose there. Again, I don’t believe it is entirely true, but I want to keep peace and I believe now that I am loosing everything and I am loosing control of everything - why not my social and dating life too! hahahahahahaha!

So how do I let go of her? I cannot even have a fucking conversation with my parents because I always cry and say, “Well, you are in charge” and “It has to be this way”! And then we cannot move foward!!!!

[Sabine]

I don’t want to loose control, I really don’t. But I feel like a rollercoaster going down down down, first my location, then my home, then my program, then my psychologists, then my class I really wanted, now maybe my engagement with the app and my social life as I want it ...

[Sabine]

I’m also envious and jealous that my sister has someone to talk to before bedtime and I barely have anyone to talk to as well. Like FaceTime or video call, thats what I mean by talking consistently, almost every night. I barely have any of that, I want that. I feel like I have to earn it and I can’t (it can be with a friend or a girlfriend, I don’t care) ...

[Sam W]

I'm sorry you're in such a rough place right now. If you're still having a hard time connecting with a counselor or therapist, it may also help to contact a more general mental health hotline or resource. Do you have one of those you use already?

As far as your feelings about your crush, the way to not dwell on a crush--or to move past it--is to find other places to direct your energy. Do you have somethings you direct your energy towards this weekend? It could be something small, it just has to be something that holds your attention.

With the app, what if instead of deleting it you set yourself a very strict limit on how often you checked it? That way you have it if you want it, but it's not something you're constantly checking.

[Sabine]

I am not having a hard time doing that, we are just busy right now. Its the hotlines I am having trouble texting and calling, since the time zones are confused.

I direct my energy mostly towards school and working on schoolwork. But I mostly do Animal Crossing and Just Dance. I make rings too and watch movies and walk as well. However, there are times where I think about her and wonder about her because again, I know its complicated. I know people on the app who left for weeks or months and then came back suddenly, like one person today. So for my crush, it’s both an absence of Insta and the app!

Yeah, a break for a week without logging off, as I don’t get notifications on there. And this outburst could be that that one day/ last night, but my mom said I seem to be like this with EVERY crush and if its a friend, I expect her to be a girlfriend (which is not true as always).

How do I advocate for myself to my parents? How do I have a calm, reasonable conversation with my parents? How can I show them that I am ready to date because again, I don’t think mom thinks I am with that attitude and those kinds of reactions (I never had a real relationship before, keep in mind and quarantine has been really hard to maintain friends already)? And again, how do I let go of her with keeping some kind of opening (situation specific).

[Sam W]

With this particular crush, there really isn't much more you can do; I know we talked earlier in this thread about sending her a message just to see how she's doing, but after that all you can do is wait and see if she responds. And maybe generate reminder for yourself that you can refer back to when you start stressing over this. Something like "I've done what I can, she'll respond if she wants to, and her response or non-response doesn't say anything bout my worth as a person."

In terms of your parents, can you give me a sense of how/if you've advocate for yourself in the past and how that's gone?

Are there any hotlines or chat lines in Austria you can use? That may help with the time issue.

[Sabine]

Yeah, thank you so much for clarifying that. I will
keep that in my head. A non-response definition: She checks instagram and/or dating app and leaves me on read.

Is that a good definition? How do I make it clear to my parents without them thinking my OCD is getting in the way?

Well, I’m not good at advocating when I’m emotional. Also often sometimes my parents interrupt me when I try to have something to say, especially when it’s irrational. I’m scared that it’s going to be the same, same arguments and that furthermore it’s going to be finalized!!! Worse is that I caused it! Me! My OCD!

I also want to show them that I can have a relationship and date, but time and time again, they see that I’m emotional and get anxious and overly attached at a crush. It may be no better in real life, but I will get anxious in real life because it’s like I never saw some people I encountered via the clubs or AWA anyway. I want to also work on this thing called the Hope Despair cycle more, but again, with the lack of professional help right now and me not trying, it’s kinda hopeless. I’m not so motivated to go out and socialize in Vienna and I don’t want to loose some semblance of my US part of myself, as I am going back there.

I feel like I am loosing more and more parts of myself (those specific parts of myself) and therefore also control. So some part of me surrender to the loss of control and my parents’s views to keep the peace, but part of me still wants to hold hope that I can keep some control in how I make relationships and especially wanting to put one foot in the US somehow. Is it reasonable to expect this? Part of me wants to go to the AWA and Villa Vida, but still wants to keep the app and stuff because I know that I want to come back to the US. I don’t know how to put how I feel into words because ultimately it would be okay the next day, but I am loosing control and potentially a part of myself (even though it shouldn’t) and that’s not okay to me.


I really don’t want to act so emotional, but want to explain my thoughts and outlook and be reasonable and compromise with them. It’s not going to be my all way. Also, I want to have this without me or them
interrupting (considering they interrupt and I let them because I am a nice person). I don’t know, they cannot have a conversation with me because I feel emotional, I feel like I am a child in comparison to them and I keep cycling and self hating.

I don’t know, I’ll look. One time, my mom caught me texting one and took away my phone and IPod because of it. She thought I was going to say I was going kill myself because of it. This was two Winter seasons ago.

[Sabine]

I know that the app is not related to San Fransisco in no way, but for some reason that’s what I choose for my symbolic anchor. For me, I’m stuck for moving forward (in what stage, idk, but I do know that I will go to college) and staying in some kind of anchor in the Bay Area.

I have had that conversation with my parents and it worked out 50/50. I shared all my feelings, but I indeed got upset. My parents concluded that, it doesn't make sense that I have my app set to near the East Bay, but for some reason, I don’t want to let it go. It’s something my parents are puzzled with and I partially don’t understand, but I want to hold onto it. I don’t want to loose control, but I feel like I have lost it as I am refusing to go by myself out of the house.

I have had transitions onto transitions and loss onto loss. And my crush is NOT just an idea! I am letting go of her. How am I going to prove to my parents that? I want to also connect more with friends in the US and on the app as well. But’s its been hard again to make it consistent. Again, It’s the culmination that makes it frustrating. This year is one of the darkest and loneliest period
in my life. I don’t know if theres much I can get out of. Or how I can regain control.

[Sabine]

And also you know, I really want to be free from this recent pain brought on, but I don’t know how. I have this aversion now (even though I want to) to go out because of the possibility of removing an app and many other things (its not what I am use too). And If I get a girlfriend in Vienna or date in Vienna, which I won’t likely, I have an aversion to that as well because of that, the possibility of moving back and just idk, maybe a little happiness aversion. Like ME being in a relationship will upset some people around me and is not me, the sexless friend who is only mean’t to be the helpful, sweet one and nothing more (thats how I see it anyways). And I am not use to being in a mutual, loving romantic or even sexual relationship EVER in my life. There were some people who wanted to date me, but again they were mostly men and I didn’t want to date them. But I feel guilty because those people (including women) didn’t have any friends and I felt like I needed to be there for them because I am that kind person - sometimes kind to a compulsive fault. Where I want to please everyone, especially my parents and in real life people.

I don’t know what to do, I know this is a temporary feeling and for some reason, I want to keep the app for now! But what do you think? I feel at my worst now and most isolated, like I am loosing control over everything and like its hard to identify how I would have control in a significant way. On top of that, maintaining friends without burdening them with problems and feeling like a stick in the mud is hard ...

Just feels so hopeless right now, but I don’t feel suicidal ...

[Sam W]

I'm going to answer the simplest question first: if you want to keep the app for now, keep the app. Even if it doesn't feel like the most rational decision, making a decisions one way or the other might remove it as a stressor for the time being.

With communicating with your parents, I wonder if it would help to prioritize communicating your points (for instance, asking them to not interrupt you or being willing to pick go back to your point when they do) rather than focus on being "unemotional." Because, quite frankly, someone being emotional about something doesn't invalidate or weaken their points, and someone being unemotional doesn't automatically make them more rational or correct. Too, it can be more helpful in conversation to say "I am feeling X because of Y, and while that may not make the most sense it's what I'm feeling and we need to work from that starting place" than to try and bury what you're feeling.

As far as those feelings of worry or hopelessness, I think that's another indicator that prioritizing getting mental healthcare, even if it's somewhat informal, is important. I will say that, given their fixation on "rationality" your mom made a rather irrational call when removing your communication tools when she found out you were looking for help a few years ago. I think we've given you this article before, but I want to direct your attention to the apps and the print resources, since those would be the ones actually guiding you through activities that can help you with those thought patterns that are causing you distress: https://www.scarleteen.com/anxiety_and_ ... _resources. And since you mention OCD specifically, these resources are ones that may help you right now:
-https://support.therapytribe.com/ocd-support-group/
-https://www.ocduk.org/overcoming-ocd/self-help/

Can you make a deal with yourself to look into at least a few of those resources today?

I do want to touch on that fear that you being in a relationship will upset people around you. Is that based on things people have said or done to you in the past?

[Sabine]

Well in terms of fearing me being in a relationship would make people unhappy, I wouldn’t want people to be happy, yet jealous just like me secretly when other people have relationships. Also, it harkens back to the guy who was jealous when I was taking my friend to the prom and not him. I want other people not to be upset and lonely, like I was.

And yes, I am going to check out those resources. Often, I think my parents misunderstand them as suicide hotline resources when they are more than that. Also for Trevorspace, I don’t use it to date, more for friends and posting and stuff, but when I said I wasn’t going on HER, Mom said “Well, you are on Trevorspace!”.

On top of that, I don’t know why, but I feel a hesitancy to go out and do stuff in Vienna, especially with my Moms organization and also to network. Partially because I don’t want to loose the online dating app presence and want to go back to the US, but also because I don’t want to feel like I have chosen someone because I had no other options or choice. And then what happens if I move, my sister’s got the long term relationship, but I want someone who is closer especially when I come back. I know everything is uncertain and it just breaks my spirit and now I am depressed because not only do I feel like I am isolated, I am isolating myself on purpose because I am I have an aversion happiness. I wish for others to be happy, but not myself. And it’s my fault I’m this way and it’s why I am sad, on top of my transition. I believe I don’t deserve this, like my sister. But I also do want to create and control my own options as well, which is why I believe I won’t get many options, as going out to previous meetings has shown! Am I explaining this well enough? My parents have their points, but I don’t know how much they get it ...

[Heather]

Hey there, Sabine. Hope it's okay for me to pop in, but if not, just let me know and I'll leave you to continue your conversation with Sam.

It sounds to me like you're setting this up as a choice between an app and dating someone in person in Vienna, and I don't think you need to do that. Now, by all means, right now with the pandemic, it might not actually be safe for you to be dating in person much, so even in Vienna, any relationship there might be mostly online. But why not go ahead and consider both? Keep the app you like having and also explore what you want to (safely) in Vienna?

[Sabine]

Its okay to pop in, totally.

And yes, we came to that conclusion. But in terms of going out, going out. I don’t know why my hesitancy. I know that the circumstances are the big thing, but I could end up anywhere so this defeats the purpose. And I don’t want to make wrong impressions to the community by being too loud, domineering or whatever. I want to consider both. Most of all, I don’t want to loose control and behave more of an adult and explain my point of view as well.

[Heather]

Can you try rewording that for me? I'm not sure I understand what you mean. Thanks!

[Sabine]

I want to use both online dating and in real life outings. But I am hesitant to mostly date in real life because of the distance factor and because of what I perceive as socially inappropriate behavior (being too loud, talking too much ... etc). Plus, going into a new space is hard, considering my experiences entering a club and trying to make new friends. Especially in a new environment, which I know I am going to go in a couple of months. I also don’t want to get hurt, perhaps by a guy friend or a girl friend again.

Also, I said that I also feel like that I would make others unhappy because I am not use to having a long-term relationship. Plus being a physically affectionate person, sometimes I feel like I would have trouble maintaining a long-distance relationship like my sister and I have little to no relationship experience in general.

I also feel like explaining the benefits of online dating is mostly cut off because “it’s mostly created by the algorithm”. But who contributes to that? The users! Also, its much more complex than straight people, do you feel it is that way for a gay person? And it is much less messy because in a way, you visit the same space and you stop talking to the person and it is awkward as hell. Also, you know their interests ahead of time and friends can matchmake all they want, but it’s their bias (I don’t know if thats a good point or bad point). In that, I reiterate - a combination is the best, I would love that.

I would love to advocate that to my parents again, but its so hard to explain the nuances to them when they don’t have that perspective. The lesbian couple I am friends with (who I want to be friends with) met on Tinder and love online dating because of the lack of messiness and the freedom of choice. But maybe again, parents know best I guess.

[Sam W]

Okay, so it sounds like the more you can remind yourself that it's not a binary choice between app and in-person dating the better you might feel, yeah?

I wonder with your parents, what if you focused less on convincing them of the nuances of things like your dating preferences and more on getting your conversations to a place where they trust you to be the expert on your experiences? Parents can offer really helpful advice at times, but they're never the experts on our lives in the way we are (and I can say from personal and professional experience, sometimes they do NOT know best).

I think it's also worth looking for ways you can avoid, "borrowing trouble." It sounds like a lot of your fears around meeting people are things that are so far down the line, yet they're playing a huge role in how you're weighing things like risks and your own desires. Do you want to talk about some ways of focusing less on those what ifs? Did you ever cover strategies for focusing less on them when you worked with your therapist?

[Sabine]

Yes indeed.

Yes, I really want to do that. But how do I say that and convince them of those things?

Yes, I do. I really would love to cover them. I also found the REST strategy is very helpful as well. R is regulate, E is evaluate, S is set intentions and T is Take Actions. I also need to look at my DBT workbook for one future situation that I will explain to you later. Those are helpful and I filled out one.

Also instead of considering the factors of what my crush could be going through, they where trying to get me to reconsider how I think about her. I am letting go of her as well to allow some space in my mind. But also, in focus of helping my hope despair cycle, I don’t think they did consider how helpful the app is nor that the situation with my crush could be clear cut or over yet, even though I let go of her (with the ladder, could that be the case, even though I don’t want to have high hopes and great disparity with my crushes). Nevertheless, I felt a little offended even though I shouldn’t have and considered what they were doing as helpful. But I realize I can hold two thoughts at once though ...

[Sam W]

I'm glad that strategy and workbooks have been helpful! One additional approach, one I use when I notice myself starting to worry bout things that are way, way off in the future and my never even happen, is to stop and think about where the worry is coming from. Is it coming from something going on my life t the moment that I'm projecting onto the future? Is it coming from something emotional or mental I'm dealing with? Or is my brain just chewing on itself, because that's what brains with anxiety tend to do? Once I've identified the cause, then I can start looking for ways to address it.

With your parents, do you feel like you could say, in a conversation with them when they start tying to argue you out of your point of view or advocate for something you don't quite agree with, "I understand where you're coming from, but I need you to trust me to make decisions for myself sometimes." How do you think they'd respond?

[Sabine]

Those are amazing questions to identify that. And now how do I address it?

I think I want to do that, but they could say and within a number of moods:
- “You are young, you clearly haven’t lived life”
- “No, just (rambles on about stuff)”
- “Just please consider it”
- “What it would be like if you would free up space for creative stuff and college essays ...” (which is true in part)
- “Remember that moment when ...”
- “But what about the hope-despair cycle ...”
- “We aren’t controlling you!” ... etc

And also, even though they aren’t doing it, I fear my app being taken away because it use to be that supervisor my program that I was in ran and watched my dating app activities. She actually said for me not to meet my first date at the time at Valentines Day and at 4:00 PM. I broke her contract by sending pictures and spending too much on it, so I deleted the app. I made a big mistake. So I fear the same, but I understand now and I tell myself over and over again in my head.

I want to tell that to my parents, but I often project their reactions and predict what they are going to say. I want to consider their advice and keep peace just in case I am wrong, but I want to make my own decisions too and them for me not to be wrong. I don’t want to ask for constant validation and rely on my parents constantly. I feel like sometimes I am insane and I have to get approval for acting right.

[Sabine]

I also guess I need to work on loving myself too before I need to love myself which I know because people tell me over and over and over again. These stressful times don’t help and I don’t know if this is more pressure for me to love myself. How do I do this? How do I prove to my parents I love myself?

[Sam W]

I think there re a few approaches to those responses from your parents. If they say something like "please consider it" you can say, "okay, I will" while knowing that the real answer is "I will consider it for two seconds and then do what I think is best for me." For the "but what about/remember X" responses, it can help to say "I know, but right now I want to focus on talking about (whatever it is you're trying to talk about)." The "we're not controlling you" is an interesting derail, and in that moment if may be simplest to say something like, "I'm not saying you are, I'm asking you to trust me to start making my own decisions." Really, what you want to aim for is keeping the focus on the specific issue or topic.

To make sure I'm understanding you correctly, you had a supervisor in your academic program who was monitoring your dating app at one point and telling you what to do on it?

[Sabine]

Thank you so much for these responses. I also know that sometimes my Mom can be pushy on certain things, especially on certain times. So I will try these strategies. That being said, I do need to improve my health, my creative stuff and goals I want to accomplish. Also, I want to compromise too and keep promises, like I will go out to these events or I will work on creative classes. I’m careful about what content I watch on YouTube because of the many times they remind me of what content I should be watching to forward my education.

Independent living program. And also to skip Valentines Day and to go for the day after Valentines Day and depart the date at 4:00 PM.

[Sabine]

Also I have this idea, maybe I am feeding it in more. Why not write a letter to my crush? Like not send it to her, but send it for myself? Maybe one day, she can see it. And also maybe in the DBT worksheet there are suggestions to carry someone you like as a picture and ask that someone what to do, maybe carry her. Tbh I lack imagination when I am anxious, so Idk. But I want to go to a place where I develop that strategy.

Totally unrelated, and I’m still trying to get over her but why would she follow me, but then not respond to anything or respond to Instagram and my dating app for days or months on end? I don’t want to believe it’s me, but the only clue she did say was that she was busy with her sister. I don’t want to blame this on her too as well, as I am an empath too.

[Heather]

Hey there, Sabine.

No one can speak for her, alas. That given, I'd just take her at her word, and also, as much as I know it's disappointing to you, accept that your interest in her is just way, way bigger than her interest in you. I do think continuing to focus on her and trying to figure things like this out is counter to moving on: this looks like staying focused on her to me more than letting this go.

If you think writing a letter for yourself would be helpful for you to give yourself some resolution so you can move on, by all means, I think that is fine to do. But I suspect that it might actually just keep you focused on her, and that you'd probably be better served by doing all you can to stop thinking and talking about her.

How do you feel about us helping you in that aim by making an agreement that we just aren't going to talk about her anymore here?