Am I going crazy

[Wanjiee]

So a while back i told y'all this is my first healthy relationship but i feel like I'm ruining it. Well, thing is, Yes, I still think I'm ruining it. A while back I went to visit my guy. He lives like 5minutes away from my place. He has a roommate, i found this girl at their place... The girl looked comfy, she had on shorts and she was the only one there, i asked her what her name was and when she did, It's a girl who has been making me insecure in this relationship, she's been flirting with my guy and my guy was entertaining her but he stopped after i told him that's some level of disrespect and hurt and also he had told me how the girl doesn't have boundaries and I was like damn okay, the same girl you leave at your place, feeling entitled asking me why i am looking for my guy and stuff... Honestly i felt so hurt, and I've felt so insecure since then, my guy did come up with a solution, to talk to the girl about boundaries and maybe cut her off slowly by slowly
He also said that how he maintains boundaries is by leaving the house when that girl arrives, honestly, I don't know what to think, i once caught him deleting some chats from that girl and he told me the girl had sent a flirty text... Damn i feel really bad,. it's been a week and I'm still bothered by that girl... She's so pretty as well... I really like this guy, and honestly i believe him when he says he's cutting ties with her, but everytime i call him and his phone is off, I can't help but think that he's with this other girlwhat should I do?

[Heather]

Hey there, Wanjiee. I'm so sorry you're having such a hard time.

Before I dig into this post, I have a could questions to get some more information.

Is this the same guy you have posted about in the past? Too, this girl is going to his place to see him, or to see someone else? I'm not sure I understand what his relationship is to her -- are they friends? -- and why he'd leave his place when she gets there unless she is coming to see someone else?

Too, what does he mean by cutting her off slowly? Again, are they friends? (Sorry if I am being daft, I just don't get it.)

One last question just so I know when I answer: is this something where you'd feel comfortable asking to sit down with both of them and try and talk things out?

[Wanjiee]

Nope, he's not the same guy I've talked about in the past... This girl is friends with him and his roommate as well, he claimed she had asked them whether she could stay there for a couple of hours because her roommate was having a boy over for a few hours, so she spent the whole afternoon there.

Uuum about the cutting off slowly, my guy said that if he gives her the boundaries talk and all that and she doesn't respect that he'll start by cutting off communication with her slowly by slowly.... Of which it's not the first time I've brought this girl up so I don't understand why he didn't do it earlier...
Now my problem is, why is it always this girl that's popping, i did talk to him about how I'm not comfortable with his female friends and he reassured me and i even became friends with some and i liked them, but why does it always have to be this girl who's bringing issues in our relationship, why has he made her that comfortable at his place that they can leave her there and go do their stuff, and everybody who comes to see them finds this girl and assumes she's his girlfriend because we all know the roommate's girlfriend. Why hasn't he made me that comfortable. I have made him that comfortable in my place, why can't he do the same.

Oh and no i can't have a conversation with both of them, I'd get too angry and probably cryalso, the girl herself told me they're just friends when i questioned her, the sad part is she didn't know who I am. I wish she did it'd have felt way better yk.

[Latha]

Hi there, Wanjiee

While the flirty texts are a bit questionable, I think this girl may not be the main issue here. She matters to you because she makes you very aware of the things you’re missing in your relationship. It is clear that this relationship is very important to you. You care a lot about your partner, and you show that by making time for him in your day and space for him in your life. It sounds like you want to feel assured of your place in his life. This girl, who seems more comfortable in his home than you are, makes you feel unsure.

To be clear, you're not a bad person for feeling this way, and this problem doesn't mean your relationship is doomed. It is really an opportunity. If you confide in your partner about how you've been feeling, you can work together on making changes that will help you feel more secure in this relationship. Since having a conversation with both your partner and this girl sounds too overwhelming, start with your partner.

Does this make sense? If you do want to have this conversation, we can help you think about what you might say.

[Heather]

I agree with what Latha has said-- that it sounds like he's the problem, more than she is -- and I also want to add a little more to this.

You feel crazy because it sounds like there is some gaslighting going on here, at a minimum. It also sounds like he's giving you the impression he's handling this one way when he isn't -- for instance, if he suggests he has talked to her about some of these issues, but she doesn't know who you are, so how could he have? -- and it also sounds like somewhere in here there's some dishonesty. Like, he's talking about her like someone he is really close to, and thus needs to be very careful with, but at the same time, he's also talking about her like she's a problem to be solved and not someone he cares about?

I think you are feeling the way you are because something is just not right here. I can't say exactly what, because I'm confused by what he's communicated to you as well. If this was just about you feeling jealous about any friends he has that are women, then you'd be feeling this way about all his women friends, but you make clear that isn't the case at all. I'd trust your gut feelings.

I wonder if it might help for me to give you an idea of what I'd expect if all of this was on the up and up, so you can see what that would look like? Maybe you can also bring this to him as a suggested way to handle it?

So, I would have another talk with him, and I would say that I wanted to talk about his interactions with this girl and how he's handling things. I would probably open up by saying that it feels confusing that he says he has talked to her about things, but yet, she has no idea who you are. I'd say that what you need him to talk about is that the way both of them are behaving is upsetting to you. I'd say that the expectation you have in a conversation he has with her is that he makes clear that you are his girlfriend, that he cares deeply for you and that your relationship is important to him. I'd ask him to be very, very clear with her, in case it isn't, that he's exclusive with you (I'm assuming), and that any flirtations between them need to stop, and that she needs to understand they need to only be platonic friends. Since so many boundaries have been overstepped and you are feeling the way you are, I'd also expect him to ask her to take a break from coming over there for a while and lean on some other friends so that you two can re-establish trust, because some of the ways they have both been behaving have degraded trust in your relationship.

I would also be very clear that you don't know what this "gradual cut-off" stuff is, but that it isn't something anyone should need to do with a friend. If she's actually his friend, he should just be able to say that he needs to prioritize his romantic relationship right now, and that the way she has been behaving has created some problems, so he needs her to give him some space to work through those. I don't know about you, but I know that my friends in my life would certainly understand that if they were actually my friends.

And I would be observing how he responded to my saying these kinds of things. If he clearly expressed care for me and a commitment to making things right, and the relationship was otherwise great (is it?), then I'd probably see what happened from there. If, instead, he got defensive or started making excuses for her or himself again, I'd be at least thinking about cutting my losses and moving on so I could find someone who felt more honest and who also cared more about my feelings.

How does any of that land with you?

[Wanjiee]

Oh Heather and Latha, I may have to screenshot this to read over and over again. And yes Heather it does seem confusing about how he communicated with her, yet she doesn't know who she is... I really swallowed my pride there otherwise the girl would have gone home crying. I feel like there's a lot of dishonesty from his side and it's really confusing and hurting me at the same time... I did have a conversation with him about this girl before but he just kept quiet and let me ramble on and on about how I don't feel good about it, he hasn't been making me feel as comfortable, the deleting chats, he just looked at me and afterwards he said I am right and he has nothing else to say. Then after a few days he talked about cutting off the girl... This relationship is really confusing. I will have the conversation with him though

[Sofi]

Hi Wanjiee, I hope it's okay that I chime in. I just want to reiterate what Heather said about observing his reaction during this conversation, because it will say a lot. I'm also sorry this is happening, it is so frustrating and unfair when our partners aren't fully honest and upfront about things. Trust your gut, and know that you deserve a partner that won't make you feel like you're "crazy". <3

[Wanjiee]

Hi Sofi, So, I did it, I had the conversation with him, I told him he should be upfront with me instead of taking me in circles telling me about gradual cut offs, and other things. I also addressed the how he's making girls or rather his female friends and male friends comfortable at his place, yet he doesn't let me stay at his place for more than 30 minutes, he doesn't let me sleep over even when his roommate isn't around. He went on and on about how he has this business, (I'm aware of that) and people are continuously knocking at his place trying to buy stuff. I'm also very aware of that, he then rambled telling me how he has difficult days and my place is his happy/ peaceful place. You know what, I dont object to that, he can come visit, but is it too much to stay at his place for just an afternoon, or a sleepover at night. I don't even mind the knocking, he was so against it, tried telling me that he is always the villain in people's stories, in short he victimized himself a whole lot, and I feel pathetic, because he told me that since I want a boyfriend i can visit everyday (not what I had said) and a boyfriend that will give me peace unlike him, I can just leave if I want to. I'm hurt, I'm sad, i love him. I don't see any valid reason why he said that because I dont even shout when expressing myself. I'm also anxiously attached, I had a mini anxiety attack because of him yess, Honestly, at first, this guy was a dream, he was the dream, but I don't know what happened, nowadays its different.

[CaitlinEve]

Hi Wanjiee,

I want to start off by telling you that I'm proud of you for having that tough conversation with him! I'm sure it wasn't easy, but you still did it and that's something to be proud of yourself for.

That being said, I'm sorry that the conversation didn't end the way you may have wished it did. Relationships should be a partnership and it seems like this relationship may not be equal in terms of input/output. It sounds like he's not used to being criticized, even if that criticism comes from a good place. Do you know what you're going to do for your next steps?

[Wanjiee]

Hey there,
No, I don't know what to do next, I'm so confused because I really like this guy, to worsen the situation, I'm anxiously attached, I really want to call him, text him, go to him, even after he told me that, I'm going through it.

[CaitlinEve]

It's a tough situation for sure and I'm so sorry you have to deal with your dream guy changing in unexpected ways. Nothing says you HAVE to decide on what to do right now though. Take your time to evaluate the situation and what you want out of your relationship. Is there anything we can do for you right now, like providing any resources/articles? Or just a listening ear?

[Wanjiee]

How about some advice or articles about anxious attachment styles. I think I'm getting out of hand, i find myself wanting to call him, text him, visiting him, every time. He once told me he'd come in a few minutes, took like 1hour, I got a mini anxiety attack thinking about whether he's with other girls... Whenever i call him and his phone is off, i leave my place (it's kind of not safe at night) and go to his place, I don't know how to deal with this, i should decenter him as people say but idk how

[Heather]

Wanjee,

I can look up some resources for you with that, but I don't think your attachment style is the problem here, this GUY is the problem here. You could have the most secure attachment style possible and he would still be a problem.

I believe you are reacting the way you are because his behaviour is making you feel the ways that you are. So, to solve for this, either his behaviour has to change, or you have to get and stay away from him. I don't think "decentering" is going to work with someone being what seems clearly dishonest and manipulative. You need to just get gone from this whole relationship and this guy.

[Heather]

Also, one thing?

He went on and on about how he has this business, (I'm aware of that) and people are continuously knocking at his place trying to buy stuff.

This sounds like drug dealing? I just can't think of what else someone could be selling that involves people coming to your home at all hours to buy something. No judgments here, but if so, I feel like there are other things that are part of this situation, both with you and this other girl.

[Heather]

One more thing, while I am thinking about it.

You say this guy was "the dream" and that you love him. Can I ask what you love about him and why you felt he was a dream partner for you? In this piece here where the relationship was only a couple weeks old it seemed pretty clear that he was already doing things like not really engaging with you in affectionate ways and making excuses about not doing the kinds of things people with a genuine interest in building intimate relationships with us will tend to do: viewtopic.php?p=74787#p74787

It sounds to me like he's also made very clear he's only going to take you and this relationship so seriously. We can't actually have a whole, well-rounded relationship with someone who sees us and our space as their "happy place," because that doesn't allow us to be whole people when we are merely someone's escape from the rest of their life. In other to have a whole, real relationship where we get to be whole, real, people, our partners also need to be able to be there for us when we or our places aren't happy and peaceful, and they need to be willing to engage with the parts of us or our lives that don't just provide them comfort, you know? He's also told you pretty flatly that he isn't interested in being that kind of partner, from the sounds of things. I think that however disappointing it is, you need to take him at his word and at what he has kept shwoing you with his crummy behaviour.

[Wanjiee]

Thank heavens because I really thought I am going crazy with all the calling, but it does make sense, Heather, also uum how'd you knowhe sells marijuana that's why people come to his place. So at first this guy was the dream, I am a hopeless romantic, he was this sweet guy, respectful, showed me a lot of love, used to come see me everyday even if it was just for 5minutes, he took care of me when I got sick, basically what I'd expect a 22 year old guy to do for me. Things changed suddenly when I started raising concerns about the girls but then i thought to myself I'm being unrealistic because they're just friends, until this flirty one came along. Also he doesn't come to see me as often so it looks like I'm forcing him. A friend of mine told me that he's trying to push me away but I've been trying to hold on to the version he showed me in the beginning. Now he's just this different person, doesn't want me at his place even for 30minutes, doesn't want to go out on walks with me, which would be pretty romantic considering how pretty the landscape is over here.
I feel like I've been in a constant begging cycle, like, hey you, please love me, please create boundaries with this girl, please come see me. And have been giving him too many chances.
How do i do this breakup thing, btw we're in the same classomg what tf was I thinking

[Heather]

Yeah, it didn't take that much deducing. I have been on the planet for a not-incosiderable amount of time, too, including some experience of knowing the personality type of a lot of folks who do this. He kind of reeked of it, not to mention that there's really only one thing people come knocking on your door for all night if you're not doing sex work.

It also sounds like this time period where he was great was really short, like a couple week, no? If you don't already know, it might help to know that most people are pretty great in the first few weeks, because it's so easy to be great in the first couple weeks. We barely know each other, conflict hasn't usually arisen yet, we haven't spent enough time for anyone to see each other's failings, and everyone is also chock-full of the happy neurochemicals like dopamine that new relationship energy give us, which make most of us nicer and more easygoing. He probably isn't a different person, this is probably more of who he is, he just didn't show it to you until he was more confident you'd stick around if he wanted.

I'm not so sure that he's trying to push you away, but I am very sure that he's not doing anything to try and keep you close and get closer. In other words, his behavior seems to show that he's willing to do the barest minimum to keep you, but also is not troubled by risking the relationship, as evidenced by what seems clearly like him being dishonest with you about whatever his relationship with this girl is.

I'm sorry about all this. Even in new relationships, it sucks to be disappointed and it hurts to be betrayed. It certainly feels terrible to be gaslit, which you clearly have been (in the future, anytime you think "am I crazy?" chances are good it's because someone is gaslighting you). And the way you are feeling about yourself with this also obviously really stings. Please know your behavior in this seems less like a reflection of who you are and more like a behavioral corner he kind of backed you into. It would be really hard for anyone to behave differently, unless they just said "to hell with this" and left.

Which, I have to say, I'm glad to hear it sounds like is where you're at. Long run, I think getting away from this guy is going to bring you a lot of peace on top of leaving you open to be with actually, truly, really good partners who are actually, really, truly seriously into you and want to build something real with you. You deserve that, especially since it's also what you are offering.

On to the breakup bits.

Really, how you do it can be simple. Were it me in this situation, given how little he has given and how briefly you've been dating, I'd probably even just text him and say something like, "You've made very clear you're not into offering what I want and need with both your words and your behavior. So, I'm going to move on. Thanks for the time we spent together, and I wish you the very best." I don't think you owe him any more than that, especially given how much energy you have already given him and this while he's been giving you breadcrumbs.

I doubt he'll be crummy to you at school because I just don't think he's invested enough to care? But if you feel differently, we can certainly talk through some scenarios if you like. I'm also happy to talk through different ways to break up if something like what I suggested doesn't feel right for you.

[Wanjiee]

When you said you doubt he'll be crummy to me because you don't think he's invested, daamnThat is enough for mee.
Thank you so much Heather for your assistance

[Heather]

I know, I hate saying things like that because it just sucks. But I also think it is sadly true.

Here's the good news: you were NOT with this guy for years and years. You didn't marry him, move in, give him money, etc. In other words, if you get out now, you can get out feeling sad and a little emotionally bruised, for sure, but without any truly devastating consequences (including being with him at the wrong time should he get caught for dealing) and without having wasted that much of your time. And like I said, this also allows you to have the time and energy for someone who is actually worth both of those.

Feel free to pop around if you need any extra help or support with this. I hope the breakup is easy, swift and uneventful. <3

[Wanjiee]

Heavy on the devastating consequences. Thank you so much, I feel so much better, and thank you to all those who were in this chat for the advice

[Heather]

I'm so glad to hear it.

[Wanjiee]

So uuum hey again, remember how I said I'll break up with him, apparently i was too attached and couldn't let go so decided to do some inner work and detachment and uum he broke up with me some few minutes ago and now I can't stop crying, like damn he didn't even think twice, I'm kind of attached to him so I'm sad, hurt, i am just all over the place its 11.57pm here and I can't sleep

[Andy]

Hi there Wanjiee,

I’m so sorry to hear that. No matter how good or bad a relationship was, it’s end often suck, especially when it’s (mostly) unexpected like this. I encourage you to feel what you feel, cry, yell or laugh, whatever you feel like and ask for any support here or from people around you that you need. I also want to give you this amazing article by Heather, which title is quite self-explanatory: Getting Through a Breakup Without Actually Breaking.
Let us know what else we can do for you <3

[Heather]

I also want to add that it's often not easy to leave even crummy relationships with shitty people.

Like Andy said, loss is loss: even though I think it's good for you to lose this relationship, that doesn't mean you won't still have a world of feelings about it ending, and as it did, or that you won't need to grieve it.

If it's helpful: in the last year, I had a person in my life who got pretty awful with me, and while the loss of a longtime friendship (and other things) was something to mourn, I tempered it with the celebratory fact that moving forward, I knew I wasn't going to wind up in something similar again because of what I learned in that experience. <3

[Wanjiee]

Thank you, I woke up at 4am started crying again... Yk what hurts is that as much as i knew this relationship wasn't for me was that I still held on to thefact that maybe he'd change and be the one for me. Feelings don't fade as fast and I really love this guy, why did he have to hurt me, I gave my all, i really put a lot of effort into understanding every part of him and he can't even have it in himself to try and understand the type of person i am, that I get jealous and I'm not out to get him, i even taught myself how to communicate without yelling and all he can tell me is how he feels like he's a bad person yet I've not been attacking him or anything. Why did he pursue me in the first place, why did he show me a very good side of his that he knew he couldn't maintain the consistency. Why tf did I even ever invite him to my place last semester, that was the beginning of all this, why did i love him... I don't want to love him. I don't want to hurt. I could've at least gotten the nice hugs from him that make me feel nice, or an 8hour sleeping besides him cuddling and feeling all nice. Why doesn't he love me enough to have tried to work it out to be better... Because i know I'm nof perfect, but I've really tried. I am so lost, I am so sad, hurt and i wish, i really wish i wasn't hurting... I'm not ready to.go.through this process... I don't think I can, it even hurts physically