question about sexual harassment?

[akiragoal]

this is my first post here. hi. i'm sorry if this isn't the right place to go but i don't want to intrude on the abuse & assault board because i'm not entirely sure if my question is exactly fitting for it? and i don't want to trigger or re-trigger anyone in that space. but um. anyway.

i'm wondering about the logistics behind what constitutes as sexual harassment, just out of curiosity (and partially because of something stupid i did when i was 15 that i've been. ruminating over. <- guy who has ocd. but i digress)

now i'm going to ask this because i've been doing research on the subject, which is compulsive and hasn't helped me much i admit but i'm a little. confused??? about it? and i've confided in people close to me about it but definitely not in a healthy way (in the sense of me being over-reliant and panicky/guilt-ridden) and instead of doing that again i wanted to try shooting my shot with asking people who might know more about this sort of thing.
(or well. DO know about this sort of thing. this is an education network. what am i saying)

a lot of sources about sexual harassment specifically regard the workplace and all which makes things a little confusing but i'm going to try and boil it down to what i'm specifically confused about, sorry if i'm a bit unclear i don't really have the desire to heavily proofread this because it's like 2am and i'm exhausted to high heaven.

i'm wondering if sexual harassment is a pattern of behavior always, or if it's sometimes constituted by a singular act? upon basic googling (and yes, even asking the ai, i admit that was probably stupid because i know that thing hallucinates) i was given an answer such as (to my memory):
"usually sexual harassment is identified by persistence/pervasiveness, but if a singular act is severe enough, it can constitute sexual harassment right then and there" - and that confuses me a little because if the act is severe enough wouldn't you just call it assault?? or is continuing to call it "harassment" regardless of the severity more of a workplace thing?? and also, what kind of acts would constitute it being "severe"?? like a one-off sexual comment or innuendo or joke or advance on someone, can that be "severe"? is the action itself the problem or is it moreso continuing after the other person shows disinterest rather than changing the subject or moving on if they show disinterest/say something ambiguous about it? like i'm very confused about it all really.

i can talk about the issue i'm ruminating on if you wish because maybe part of my worry is because there's an obvious disconnect between a workplace harassment issue and. direct messages between two teenagers with one who made a bold sexual advance that was ambiguously(?) received. (<- in. simple terms. pardon me if that's not clear enough.)
it might be silly of me to be digging into a 2 year old exchange i didn't even remember until recently but i tend to have a lot of fixations on the specific theme of me either being a perpetrator or victim (to varying degrees of "rationality" or "possibility") due to my ocd problems. and i don't expect you guys to help me with the ocd aspect in particular jsyk, it's moreso a contextual addition. either way the mere possibility of me doing something like that horrifies me beyond belief and has made me feel very very terrible as of late, especially because it's something that i've never repeated since and feels very out-of-character for how i am now.
if anything over the past year or so i've become a boundary FREAK like i get remorseful over the mere idea of overstepping ON ACCIDENT. but i've kind of always been this way even back then i think?? i'm not sure. my memory is spotty.

just kind of curious, and maybe a little anxious. sorry if this is unclear. if any clarification is needed i'll gladly give it. and once again sorry if this is messy, first post and all. i'm a bit nervous.

[char]

Hi akiragoal, welcome to the boards

Since my shift is ending soon, I won't be able to give you lots of answers now, but I've let the rest of the volunteers know that you're here. I'll leave you with these articles for now:
- Blinders Off: Getting a Good Look at Abuse and Assault
- No Grey Area: A Journey Identifying and Healing from Sexual Assault

[Heather]

Hey there, akiragoal.

It sounds like you already know, at least intellectually, that you care enough about boundaries and that your OCD animates so much of this worry, that you likely didn't do anything to anyone you need to worry about.

I disagree that sexual harassment has to be a pattern to be harassment. After all, as any of us who have gotten catcalled on the street can attest, we can be harassed as a one-off. But I think the important thing to know is that sexual harassment is not about someone overstepping on accident, it's about someone intentionally trying to get some kind of power and control.

I strongly suspect that what's more likely, though, to relieve what comes from rumination for you isn't factual answers, but instead therapeutic treatment or approaches to your OCD. Do you have anything you've learned or worked on in therapy that works for you to manage things like rumination?

[akiragoal]

Hey there, akiragoal.

It sounds like you already know, at least intellectually, that you care enough about boundaries and that your OCD animates so much of this worry, that you likely didn't do anything to anyone you need to worry about.

I disagree that sexual harassment has to be a pattern to be harassment. After all, as any of us who have gotten catcalled on the street can attest, we can be harassed as a one-off. But I think the important thing to know is that sexual harassment is not about someone overstepping on accident, it's about someone intentionally trying to get some kind of power and control.

I strongly suspect that what's more likely, though, to relieve what comes from rumination for you isn't factual answers, but instead therapeutic treatment or approaches to your OCD. Do you have anything you've learned or worked on in therapy that works for you to manage things like rumination?

hi, apologies for my late response, and sorry if quoting isn't a traditional method of reply lol it was in an old forum i was on a while back so i'm a bit used to that method. anyway

intellectually i do know my ocd is likely amplifying things, yes. my mind has a bit of a blockage with that in the sense of "well, if you just say it's ocd, you're minimizing and trying to escape the guilt you Should be feeling, actually" so it's hard for me to fully internalize that at the current moment but i do have an inkling that a lot of this is sourced by my mind being hyperactive and hyperfocused on this, for sure. i still wonder if what i did back then constitutes as something bad or not (my mind says it counts regardless so it's very distressing) and if it reflects on my current character nowadays, though. and it doesn't help that i feel like if people i'm close to now knew that i did this, their views of me would change, and my personal view of "i'd never be someone who would do something like that!" would be flipped over as well if that makes sense? it's a very draining cycle and it makes it hard for me to feel deserving of any peace or happiness i have right now.
(^^ once again you don't have to give me any advice on this if you can't or don't want to, i understand. i'm just kind of explaining the mental process of it all a bit.)

i do care about boundaries very deeply, as well, yes. currently at least. i might have back then as well but i'm not entirely sure, because the me of 2 years ago was very different to the me of today.

when you put the harassment thing into perspective i do absolutely agree, by the way. catcalling someone on the street and the like, that definitely constitutes icky behavior overall.

But I think the important thing to know is that sexual harassment is not about someone overstepping on accident, it's about someone intentionally trying to get some kind of power and control.

^^ this also puts things into perspective for me as well. so intent does matter, i'm guessing? i mean i know impact matters most of all (part of the reason i'm so worried about this is because the impact on the other party in my situation was ambiguous, even). but intent, i assume (correct me if i'm wrong) is what changes something from harassment to a boundary push/overstep? (<- sorry if my language usage isn't correct here. once again feel free to correct me if i'm wrong). overall back then i feel as if i didn't have an intent to hurt or control the other party. i'm not certain (because you never can be with 2 year old events i guess) but i can't really imagine ever wanting to impose on someone like that, at least nowadays.

and on the likelihood thing. yeah, i do think you're right. i've researched a lot and nothing really satiates the anxiety, guilt, and shame.

i've tried self-administered ocd therapy methods recommended by some sources (like nocd for example) on some other themes of mine and it's been working well, unfortunately when one calms down another pops up which i need to figure out how to handle, but overall i have tried some methods, yes.
i'm not in therapy for my problems which is a whole other can of worms. i've been dealing with this practically 100% on my own ever since my symptoms intensified earlier this year. i do want to get into therapy for my symptoms and whatnot but due to some family-related situations i can't really. achieve that. and it's very tiring. to keep it simple for now (unless you want to unpack it deeper) no matter how many times i say therapy will assist me in my problems i get pushback from my mom, with her saying "you need to handle your symptoms yourself first before we try something like that" or whatever.

thank you for the response, by the way. i appreciate it deeply. talking this out here is very helpful and i'm able to approach this without extreme anxiety i've noticed.

[Sofi]

I actually do want to touch on what you mentioned about your mom regarding therapy. Is this for just any therapy overall or for OCD therapy specifically? Because I'm not sure it makes sense to try to handle your OCD symptoms yourself BEFORE trying therapy, when OCD-specialized therapists and therapy exists (and is super helpful!). Therapy will, for example, help you manage rumination. Do you think you could bring this up to your mom again?

[akiragoal]

I actually do want to touch on what you mentioned about your mom regarding therapy. Is this for just any therapy overall or for OCD therapy specifically? Because I'm not sure it makes sense to try to handle your OCD symptoms yourself BEFORE trying therapy, when OCD-specialized therapists and therapy exists (and is super helpful!). Therapy will, for example, help you manage rumination. Do you think you could bring this up to your mom again?

it’s for ocd therapy specifically. i mean, she’s always been a bit wishy washy on therapy itself but would give me a general “whenever you’re ready” type answer over the years (since ive dealt with various things during my adolescence that have made me consider it multiple times) but i was always too afraid to. with ocd therapy itself, though, it’s different.

she knows of my research and reviewing compulsions, probably my two worst ones (considering the fact that this entire worry sparked when i had the bright idea of “Hey! Let’s look at every dm you sent to this girl you liked years ago to prove some vague memory you’re worrying about!” only to find the exchange i’m worrying about instead of that) and she’s very strict with me when she does figure out i’ve been falling back into them again (like “i’ll take your phone” or “i won’t let you get back on the computer” type stuff). she tells me, consistently, in the many times i have brought up ocd therapy over the past month or two, something along the lines of:
“they’ll just tell you everything i’ve been telling you. if you can’t listen to me, you won’t listen to them. you have to get ahold of yourself before we even consider therapy options.”

i love my mom to death but it’s very complicated. i feel like i can’t stop these compulsions or anything because i don’t really have anywhere else to turn, no matter how hard i try to i keep coming back. i don’t want to talk through my issues with my friends due to the severity and the worries i have about their views of me, and some of the things i worry about are things i don’t want her to know about, so i can’t always go to her for that either.

i could try bringing it up to her again soon, but i feel like i already know what the answer is gonna be since we’ve had the discussion a good few times.

sorry if this reply is sloppy i’m replying from my phone. essentially she knows about my compulsions and manages them very strictly and claims that the fact that i have a hard time with them is the reason why i’m “not ready for therapy” yet.

[amber]

Hi akiragoal!

No apologies needed and thanks again for sharing.

I thought I'd start by letting you know how much I relate to the struggles you are describing. I to struggle with research compulsions and can empathize with how challenging that must be for you. I hope hearing that you are not alone in these struggles offers some support.

I am sorry how you've been struggling to get your mom on board with therapy. Our cultural perception of therapy has change pretty rapidly that some folks still see it as very stigmatizing. Still, as I believe you know, OCD specific therapy is THE treatment plan for OCD.

I wonder if you may try to negotiate with your mom a bit. Maybe suggest you try therapy for a certain number of sessions and then check back in together to see if it is worth continuing (my guess is it will be). Another possibility could be bringing up your concerns to a primary care provider or another doctor you see. They may be able to offer referrals, suggestions, or information to you and your mom.

I am sorry you are feeling stuck at the moment. Let us know how we can best help you!