A wrench thrown in the works

[LopezMonty]

Cambridge dictionary definition:
to do something that prevents a plan or activity from succeeding.

So. I suppose my “plan”, if there was any, was to be attracted to men and some nonbinary people. I thought I had that figured out.
Then again, I’ve only ever been attracted to fictional men and nonbinary people. I’ve never really experienced attraction to real people.

But then I had to stumble upon a fictional woman that I might be attracted to. The fact that she’s a trans woman only makes this more complicated.

Am I dick sexual? But that doesn’t make any sense. And besides, I’ve been attracted to fictional trans men who don’t have dicks before. So it’s probably not a genital preference.
Is this some weird manifestation of jealousy because I wish I had a dick?
But that doesn’t make any sense either.

My attractions to fictional men and nonbinary people has always been rather diverse. Masculine, feminine, androgynous, I’ve liked it all. I’m more attracted to (and envious of) androgyny more than anything else.
So is this attraction to a fictional woman because I’m attracted to androgyny? But she’s not androgynous; she’s very feminine. The only thing “androgynous” about her is that she has a penis.

I mean, it’s not like this is a real person. Again, I’ve never really liked real people. But I don’t know if my discomfort around real people is a kind of asexuality or if I just have issues that I need to work out.

I’m sorry if this all sounds weird or even fetishizing. I don’t want to sound like that.

[amber]

Hi LopezMonty!

I hear you on the confusion around not being able to fit your sexuality into a neat box. It can feel stressful to not feel like you fully understand. A lot of folks come to the boards with similar feelings.

What I'd challenge you to think about is why any of this is bad. Why does your sexuality need a plan? What is wrong with being attracted to women as well? How would it feel to give yourself some space from trying to understand your sexuality?

[LopezMonty]

I guess I’m concerned because I was so sure that I had figured this out. That I knew this part of myself for sure. I would think “hey, even if gender is confusing, at least you know your sexuality!”

[Straif]

Hi LopezMonty,

I've got an answer that you may not like right now, but I promise it's good news for you in the long run: we never have gender, sexuality, (or a great many other things about being a human) completely "figured out." Fixating on what "types" of person you're attracted to is not likely to be helpful because who we are attracted to and how we experience that attraction is naturally variable. For more on that front, check out Hey Hot Stuff: Attraction, Desirability, and Types.

Because everyone's experience is different, not everything in that article will necessarily ring true for you. But don't let that lead you to dismiss the whole thing out of hand. Instead, it can be really helpful to identify what does and doesn't click and use that as an opportunity to ask yourself "Why does ___ resonate with me so much?" as well as "Why am I feeling resistant to ____?"

It sounds like it's possible that the reason you're holding so tightly to your "plan" for your sexuality is that you have been struggling with bodily autonomy in relation to your gender? Whether that is a contributing factor or not, self-compassion and patience will be key-- not continuing to try to define exactly who you are attracted to or why. (But it might be interesting to ask yourself why doing so might feel "easier" than some of the other strategies we've discussed working on in other posts?)

Finally, I'm glad you're thinking about not trying to fetishize folks because people aren't objects, and it seems like you're aware that the language you use could be dehumanizing to trans women. As I'm thinking about it, I wonder if attraction to fictional characters feels safer to you, not just because you're worried about being hurt or rejected, but also because you're worried you have to have everything "figured out" to avoid hurting other people? It doesn't seem like your discomfort around real people is limited to sexual attraction, so it might be a good idea to work through those anxieties with the help of a trained counselor. The right person could be incredibly supportive in terms of your gender journey, too.

[LopezMonty]

(But it might be interesting to ask yourself why doing so might feel "easier" than some of the other strategies we've discussed working on in other posts?)

Finally, I'm glad you're thinking about not trying to fetishize folks because people aren't objects, and it seems like you're aware that the language you use could be dehumanizing to trans women. As I'm thinking about it, I wonder if attraction to fictional characters feels safer to you, not just because you're worried about being hurt or rejected, but also because you're worried you have to have everything "figured out" to avoid hurting other people? It doesn't seem like your discomfort around real people is limited to sexual attraction, so it might be a good idea to work through those anxieties with the help of a trained counselor. The right person could be incredibly supportive in terms of your gender journey, too.

1. If I had to guess, I feel like this manifestation of panic around my sexuality and the desire to have it “all figured out” is probably an intense desire for control. To feel like I’m in control of something, anything, when everything else feels out of control. Whether that’s by strictly defining my sexuality, abstaining from sex and masturbation, or ignoring desires, it’s all kind of a result of the same thing.

2. I really don’t want to hurt or dehumanize other people, even on accident. Fictional characters do feel much safer than real people, in every aspect. I can’t mess up a relationship with someone who isn’t real. I can’t be “too much” with someone who isn’t real.

I worry that transitioning might destroy my own sexuality. I want to be male so that I can feminize a masculine body, rather than masculinize a feminine body. But if I am perceived as a man, women would —naturally—be wary of me. If I’m attracted to women, then wouldn’t that make me “no better than a man”, as some people put it?

If I have to choose a binary role, I’m a man.

I really don’t want to dehumanize or hurt trans women. I think they’re really cool (even if the only one I’ve met in real life is a jerk). They’re much braver than I am—and much more stylish, too.

[Latha]

Hi there, LopezMonty

I think this thread has touched on a couple really interesting ideas. Here are a few of my thoughts:

I understand the need to have some control in your life, especially when everything feels out of control. What is interesting is that it seems like the places where you exert control coincide with parts of yourself that you feel are not valuable--more specifically, that you may have learnt are not worthy of respect from the people around you/society at large: your desires, your desirability as a partner, your sexuality. Then, I'd imagine your control serves to protect you, as Straif noted, from the risk of getting hurt or hurting other people. What do you think?

I must admit, I am not a fan of judging people to be "no better than a man" or sentiments like that. Very often, this is used when someone (who the speaker does not associate with manhood, whether that is true or not) expresses frank sexual attraction to women. It implies three things:

• that feeling/expressing sexual attraction to women is wrong

• That this (bad) sexual attraction is natural to men

• That other people do not experience sexual attraction to women

I wonder if you can see the issues implied by this sort of thinking, because it goes against so much of what we understand about healthy sexuality.

• It is normal for anyone who experiences sexual attraction to feel and talk about it--we only have to try be mindful of time, place, and the boundaries of the people we are sharing our feelings with. (To be clear, just as it is inappropriate to talk about your sexual feelings in some contexts, in others, it can be very appropriate and welcomed.)

• By treating men's sexual attraction to women as inherently damaging, it undermines feminist goals for gender liberation--if sexual attraction is bad, and this bad behavior is inherent to men as a group, there is no point asking men who behave badly in sexual relationships or contexts to change the way they treat women.

• Though this statement is ostensibly in support of women, by positioning them as normally better then men, it communicates sex-negative stigma for women's sexual attraction to other women.

Ideas that are framed as being in favor of women are not always feminist in practice. Really, I think this is why it is inadvisable to rank groups of people. As you have experienced, bad frameworks like that only confuse and make us feel worse about ourselves. Being attracted to women would not make you 'no better than a man', simply because there is no comparison to be made there. Transitioning will not destroy your sexuality because there is nothing that can be destroyed. If you are attracted to women (often, under specific conditions, once in a blue moon), that is okay.

But if I am perceived as a man, women would —naturally—be wary of me.

Women are at times wary of men--especially strangers. This is an unfortunate consequence of many people's experiences with patriarchal oppression, rather than the justified and natural treatment of men or anyone who is read as masculine. While we want to be understanding of the imperfect adaptations we all have to make to manage the risk and trauma of living in a patriarchal system, ultimately, we do want to build a society where we do not have to be wary in this way.

This pattern of wariness is not the only way women react to men, and women do form all kinds of close relationships with men. You are worthy--I hope you will not think of yourself as a less valuable partner, friend, or person for transitioning.

I really don’t want to dehumanize or hurt trans women. I think they’re really cool (even if the only one I’ve met in real life is a jerk). They’re much braver than I am—and much more stylish, too.

It is okay to compliment a group and generally think positively about them--I agree that trans women are cool. However, making a positive judgement like that should not come with an implied negative judgement about yourself.

The way I see it, to humanize a group is to understand them as essentially human in their nature--to be able to hold in your mind their complexity and diversity, to appreciate them as a group while understanding that individuals have strengths and weaknesses, virtues and flaws. To know that whatever your differences, they are also just like you. Putting someone on a pedestal, and comparing yourself negatively against them, is not humanization.

What makes trans women brave or stylish in your opinion? If there is a style you've seen among trans women that you admire for yourself, you can emulate it.

I really don’t want to hurt or dehumanize other people, even on accident.

Of course, you want to avoid hurting people. It is just a little much to ask yourself to avoid hurting people by accident--by definition, that is an outcome you don't intend or want.

The pleasures of companionship with other people cannot be untangled from the risk of being hurt. And you cannot always predict what will hurt other people. Thankfully, showing care, giving a good apology, and changing behavior can sooth a lot of pain in interpersonal relationships. I understand why focusing on fiction would be safer than relationships with real people, but there are people who would love to know you.

Has anyone given you the sense that you mess up relationships, or that you are too much, in the past?

[LopezMonty]

Okay, so one at a time.

1. I also do not like the framing people have, particularly online, that men are inherently evil or abusers of women. I also don’t like the framing that sexuality is inherently predatory. I also don’t want to think that transitioning would hurt my “value” in any way, but societal conditioning obviously takes a long time to undo.

2. I think trans women are brave because they are much more visible than people like me are. I think they’re stylish partly because feminine people in general (though of course not all trans women are feminine) are able to express themselves through clothes much more. Masculine fashion is boring and filled with self repression. I contribute to that.
It’s like a damned if I do, damned if I don’t situation. If someone assumes I’m cis, I look like a boring cis boy and am left alone, but I am unable to fully express myself. Also if someone assumes I’m cis, I’m a masculine girl deserving of harassment. I’m still unable to express myself.
If someone assumes I’m trans, I could be mistreated either way. Still unable to be myself. By coming as close to “passing” as possible, I avoid most harassment. But I am unable to express myself or be stylish.

3. Your comments, along with some articles I’ve read here, have made me realize that I don’t consider my desires or sexuality to be valuable. One article about being labeled as unlovable really got it right. For years, I told myself I didn’t care about sexuality, because mine wasn’t important. Then, I moved on to trying to control it once I did start to care about it. In my mind, if my sexuality is completely under my control, and if I remain alone, I won’t hurt or be hurt by anyone.
But of course that’s not really true.
Isolation hurts, too.

[KierC]

Hey LopezMonty,

1. I’m glad you agree with what Latha said. And I agree with you, societal conditioning can take a lot of work to do. It can be particularly difficult without support and community, too. So I think your observation that you’ve been isolating yourself is a really important one. How do you feel about diving into more of the queer and trans community in your area, if you haven’t done so already? Happy to make suggestions for that if you’d like.

2. You know, I think part of what Latha was saying here is that we dehumanize people when we put them into groups and assign traits to people based on their membership of a particular group, even if we think we’re being complimentary. Life is filled with nuance and it does a disservice to reduce the complexities of people to absolutes, like saying that trans women are brave. I notice you speak about the world and your options in this world in absolutes, and I wonder if this is causing you even more pain. What do you think of that idea?

I also noticed we asked you about seeking therapy and didn’t hear a response about it. Could I ask, have you thought about finding a therapist who might be able to dive deeper with you?

[LopezMonty]

I would like to find queer community where I live, but I worry that I’ll be unable to express myself properly. I already struggle to communicate in English, so if I have to talk to others in Spanish, communicating would be even harder. I’m afraid that I’d sound like an idiot and embarrass myself.

I really am sorry. I don’t want to dehumanize anyone. And I’m sorry that I think in absolutes like this. It’s funny. My first thoughts while reading this was “oh, I’m an awful person” and “I mess up everything”. But that’s just more thinking in absolutes, isn’t it?
I don’t know how to train myself to stop thinking this way. I’m neurodivergent, and I’m aware that this kind of thinking is a symptom.

Thankfully, I do see a therapist, though I think it will take some more time to be able to fully open up to her. I’ve talked to her about dysphoria before, and that went well.
I suppose it’s always easier to talk about your personal problems when no one can see your face, huh?

[Latha]

Hello again, LopezMonty

It can be easier to talk about problems when you are anonymous--I'm happy this is a safe space for you. And I'm glad you were able to talk to your therapist about dysphoria.

It is okay that you've apologized, but it really isn't necessary--we don't need an apology from you. We understand and believe in your good intentions, so we don't think you actually want to dehumanize anyone. We're just pointing out the implications of these ideas, and how they're contributing to some of the confusion you are feeling.

Nor does you thinking like this cause problems for us. We'd be here answering questions and providing support anyway, so it is no big deal to talk to you. I am only sorry to see how you are trying your best but are still feeling so much hurt--I hope that our responses here will provide some comfort.

My first thoughts while reading this was “oh, I’m an awful person” and “I mess up everything”. But that’s just more thinking in absolutes, isn’t it?

You're right, it is. It is also another example of dehumanization--to err is human, and it is okay to make mistakes. Try to extend these ideas on humanization to yourself--you are not an awful person, and you don't mess everything up. You are just trying your best to be good. You are struggling to make sense of an incredibly complex world and you are having a hard time being kind to yourself in your mind.

You are also under a lot stress. It is not that we have all the answers and you just can't think right. Nobody thinks as well as they could when they are depressed, stressed, and isolated. The best thinking, in my opinion, comes from being in conversation with other people and the world. And sometimes, you need other people to tell you what you already know to make use of that information.

I don’t know how to train myself to stop thinking this way.

By reaching out and confiding in other people, and by considering what we say when we disagree with some example of absolute thinking, you are already training yourself to think differently. I ask that you try to consider alternatives to absolutes more often. Even when they are hard to believe, keep an eye open to evidence of all the options. You can be skeptical, but also be curious.

I would like to find queer community where I live, but I worry that I’ll be unable to express myself properly.

Okay, so you've thought about how this might go poorly. Let's consider how it could go well:

• What if the people you meet think it is charming and cool that you are trying your best to communicate in an unfamiliar language?

• What if they try to meet you half way, with what they know of English or another common language?

• What if they think it is interesting that you moved to where you live now, and want to make you feel welcome?

(As someone who has lived in places where I am not fluent in the local language, I promise these are all very possible responses.)

I’m afraid that I’d sound like an idiot and embarrass myself.

Do you really believe that when someone isn't fluent in a second language, that means they are an idiot? Or is that what you fear rude people will think about you? If someone thought that way, why should you listen to them?

By coming as close to “passing” as possible, I avoid most harassment. But I am unable to express myself or be stylish.

I hear you on the fact that you have to consider your safety and what might get you gendered correctly when you choose your clothes, and I understand how these pressures would make it harder for you to make choices that let you express yourself. I also get how masculine fashion would feel limiting and repressive--it can seem like there are fewer options and less space for creative expression in the men's section.

Even though the fashions and styles we associate with masculinity may not be of interest to you personally, I want to suggest that you look for the perspectives of people who do enjoy menswear. I'm no expert on fashion, but I've found that hearing from people who appreciate things that are unfamiliar to me is a good way of learning to see more beauty in the world.

For example, I'd recommend the podcast Articles of Interest, which is about the social history of clothing and fashion. Your words reminded me of their episode on suits, where they say "... expression is possible. It's just that men's wear doesn't shout, it whispers. And you have to lean in close to hear it".

You might also be interested in the writing of fashion commentator Derek Guy. He is known for his interest in menswear, and has shared advice for transmasculine clothing here: Bluesky post

In an ideal world, where you could express yourself freely and be safe and gendered correctly, what kinds of clothes would you wear?

[LopezMonty]

Well, whatever I want, I suppose.
Comfy menswear sometimes, tailored suits at other times. Trench coats, too.
Things like leather jackets and pants, ensembles like a motorcyclist or rock star.
Ear piercings and maybe a few tattoos.
Makeup. Sometimes minimalist but other times bold.
Acrylic nails. Again, sometimes. Probably the easily removable kind.
Crop tops and shorts and any kind of bathing suit that I feel like.
Sometimes I’d wax my body and other times I wouldn’t. And shoulder length hair.
And, at private times, jockstraps or lingerie depending on my mood. Sexy clothes that are revealing, like fishnets.
Stilettos.
Combat boots.

But even if this world existed, I don’t have the confidence to think I’d look good in these clothes.
Besides, I’m very short, so they wouldn’t fit me.

[Sofi]

Hi LopezMonty,

It seems like we've sort of gone in circles a little bit here, and you're having a really negative view of yourself and your gender expression possibilities. Maybe confidence is the first thing you should work on here in order to be able to then move on to the rest. Is that something you've talked to your therapist about?

[LopezMonty]

I’m sorry if/that I’m being unhelpful.
Venting probably isn’t helpful, isn’t it?
I keep thinking that if I just work harder or get better at skills that are useful to myself or others that my confidence would just naturally improve.
Skills that I want to know like writing or drawing or painting. Or skills that are necessary like communicating or networking.

[Sofi]

Venting is helpful if you're using it as a way to get stuff off your chest or externally process your feelings and thoughts, but it does become unhelpful to yourself once it's just repeating the same negative self-talk over and over. It sounds like you're attaching your self worth to your productivity and how "useful" you can be, which has nothing to do with your worth. Improving on skills is great and I encourage you to explore that, and it will help your self confidence some, but I invite you to think beyond that. You are valuable and worthy as you are, because of who you are, regardless of your skills and how "useful" you are to others. Does that make sense? <3